Clarification on security, freedom, and comfort

In the first e-mails, I am more building off of common ground.  He pretty much told me his whole desire is to be a billionaire by the time he is 40.  He gave me as the reason for doing so is that he could have independence and security.  Building off of that theme, I gave the following paragraph.  I completely agree with your statements that that is not our whole purpose.  I hope I defined that more clearly in some of the other e-mails that came later, if not in the same one.

“I do not laugh at your hope of retiring early.  I believe it is a noble thing to have prepared so you can spend your live doing something more productive than the pursuit of money.  I completely agree with you on this point.  I hope to be financially independent so I can turn my focus onto other things, more important things.  I see nothing wrong with this desire.  I am sorry if other people find it foolish.”

I certainly think you should do your job with full faithfulness and not just with the end to get money.  You should enjoy your job and find its meaning and opportunity for you.  I completely agree that it is more than just supporting the family.

“There are a couple of thoughts I will throw at you.  I am not to elude that you are caught in these thought patterns, but a caution in case you may have forgotten.  You referenced financial freedom and security.  I am not personally aware of any promises in the gospel that we will be given security or a large degree of freedom.  Agency, yes; the ability to act, definitely; but beware of the thought process that at some point you will have reached a point to where you are excluded from pain, sorrow, or suffering. “

You quoted D&C 70 in relation to this comment.  The Lord there promises us blessings and great blessings.  But I do not read that these promises are necessarily for temporal blessings and temporal security.  Remember, this is one of the reasons why the Saints were so terribly upset in Kirtland and in Jackson.  The Kirtland anti-Banking Society was established and many people fully thought the Lord was going to make them rich.  After all, they were in the process of gathering and of building Zion (literally) and that led to their downfall.  In Jackson the Saints were sure that they would be protected temporally because of some of these commandments.  Well, we know what happened there as well.

To me, when the Lord promises comfort, security, blessings, and freedom, these are all first and foremost spiritually and in the conscious.  I do believe they lead to the physical.  That is one of the messages I get from the New Testament is that Saints will be able to call anyplace, even the pits of hell, home and make it a Zion.  Wherever the Saints are, there cannot be hell.  Remember the Lectures of Faith, those who have a certain knowledge can take spoiling of the goods and even the taking of their lives with joy and a certain knowledge that they have a future and know their place in eternity.  If I remember right, I don’t have the book yet, but the quote of idolatry by President Kimball includes the comforts of family, cars, and houses. 

I guess is what I am saying, Saints were had in Kirtland and Missouri even though they were in hell.  They had comfort and freedom and independence and security despite what they were going through physically.  Many counted it a blessing to come across the plains, even the quote from the old man in the Martin Handcart Company, that it was the place they came to know God and would not trade it for anything.

It seems to me a twist of the scriptures to believe we are promised physical security and freedom.

Your quotes from the Book of Mormon go along with what I have already talked about.  Free forever, certainly is more than this mortal probation (2 Ne 2:26).  The Lord promised the Israelites freedom in Egypt, but they still had to sit there for 400 years.  (I wonder how many lost their faith because they were not given their freedom in their lifetimes?)  Out of darkness into the light, out of captivity to freedom (2 Ne 3:5) seems to be speaking the same.  Under no other head are you made free (Mosiah 5:8) I view death and a resurrection as a freedom from the fallen world too.  Moroni’s inspiration to be freed from bondage (Alma 43:48) is still very much on the Lord’s timetable.  Wandering in the wilderness for 40 years is certainly freedom considered under what they had left with Pharaoh, but still it was very taxing, and they had no real comforts or even security.  They had serpents and all sorts else to worry about.  Hearing the Lord and following him will make us free (D&C 38:22) is very true, but what about all those Saints who wasted away with the same promise in eastern Germany and Soviet provinces.  Hundreds never saw freedom in their life according to what you are arguing here, but certainly did in the spiritual way.  Even Brigham Young has quotes where the strangling of the US government was diminishing the Saints freedoms.  His views were of the freedom of polygamy, and (don’t know if I would argue for it) we still don’t have the complete freedom of our religion in this country. 

As for the quote about the Constitution and our liberty to make us free.  That is one of the big things Joseph Smith taught.  Our constitution gave us the freedom of thought, to act as we please (despite its tightening under Brigham) and freedom of conscience.  You know this. 

If we are righteous, the promise is that we shall have our needs met.  Even that our cup will run over and with tithing that we cannot receive them all.  But that certainly never applied to riches as far as I have ever seen. My bank account certainly could receive more and I could too.  So it doesn’t have to do with money.  But in spiritual blessings, from which the physical manifests itself, I certainly believe we can be therewith content with what the Lord has allotted us.  Even if that is a prison cell in the freezing of winter in 1837 called Liberty.  Isn’t that what the Lord told Joseph and later.  Receive ALL things with thankfulness and you shall be made glorious (again, not necessarily physically).

“I know you are not saving up money to become rich.  It is your desire to be able to be more free to do things which are of more worth with your time to your family and for others.  I certainly think that is a worthwhile pursuit.  Just be careful not to be driven too much by money rather than your worthwhile pursuits. “

This was another building off the common ground concept.  Start at common ground, build off of it, and then you can help them see where you vary and then they are left with the choice.  Isn’t this much of the Socratic method.  But you have to start somewhere to where they can agree with you.

This was one of the main reasons why he wanted to gain riches.  I do think it is a noble thing for you to be able to do more with your family and time for the benefit of others.  I admit, no matter how much I like my job, I have to do it a certain amount and detract away from time that could be used with family, teaching, or even in service.  Honestly, you can love your job and want to spend all your time there, but in the end, whether you love your job or not is not going to get you into heavens quadrants.  Your family, your service and stewardship will count much more.

There are a score of great blessings that do come from work.  I don’t doubt that.  But I am sure you could learn many of those same ethics and work from other meaningful service too.  Our jobs are a required part of life.  Someone has to clean the sewers, someone has to move the trash, someone has to do crime scene investigating, someone has to be the mortician.  I certainly hope those people don’t hate their jobs.  I do believe, in the vein above, that you have to have that inside conviction, freedom, and security and the outside will change.  Hell will in fact become heaven.  If you hate your job, first you should probably change your heart and mind, then look again at the job and consider if a change needs to be made.

I completely agree with the Luke 3:14, 1 Tim 6:8, Heb 13:5 (what would that say if I didn’t agree?) that one should be content with wages, have godliness and contentment, and to avoid covetousness.  I am sorry if I led you to believe I supported these things.

Anyhow, I hope as you read later of the forwards, that I corrected or explained my position more fully.

This is a great little study for both of us.  We must be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves.  We must think these things through, even we must plan financially but far too many people let it consume their lives.  I really liked your line, “…I can see how it will take over if you are not careful.  But now I know, I need to be wise, but not worry, be prepared, but not obsessed!”

Thanks again, I enjoy our little banters.

May’s flowers

I know, I know.  It has been too long and I must do better.  Sometimes life seems like it is not worth recording, but at other times, it seems I never have time to record what I want to.  My journals obviously take precedent, but I can do better at keeping up the blog.
Just finished a weekend at Flaming Gorge with the Hemsley Family.  I had a very enjoyable experience.  I feel bad because I went with a bit of exhaustion and fatigue.  I slept and napped enough to overcome it, but at the loss to my in-laws.  I did take considerable time to read on in Rough Stone Rolling and found myself quite inspired by some of it.  Again, I think Bushman’s generalizations are far off the mark at times, but I do enjoy the historical facts and timeline.  I read the parts dealing quite a bit with the Kirtland years and was captivated.  Anyhow, fishing went well.  We got there at 2:30 AM on the first night which I was sure would kill me.  We slept in, went fly fishing, had breakfast, went back, was rained out, and came back to camp.  It was a really slow day.  However, it was great for napping and resting.  Fly fishing just did not go well though.  It was pretty dead.  Don’t know if it is my technique or what, but others around me were doing poorly as well.  However, the next day was great.  We did some fishing at the dam regular style.  I caught 6 fish in the time of the morning.  We kept two of them, both Bass.  That evening we went out again, and I caught another 6 fish.  Kept two more, both Bass.  For a side note, I ate a filet from one of my Bass last night, I enjoyed it.  However, a bit haunted by the thoughts of catching the live fish, then the memory of it being gutted, then the filet process, and now I was eating it.    I will comment about our rafting trip on the way down the Green on Saturday afternoon.  I was in the non-wild boat for making the trip.  However, the wild boat turned out to be pretty weak, and we ended up taking nearly all the rapids straight on.  It was a rush, and I very much enjoyed it.  One of the final little rapids, we went right over the rock and landed in the hole behind it.  We churned in the hole, taking on water, and spinning.  I ended up breaking my oar trying to get out of the hole.  Others claimed it could turned out to have been a dangerous situation.  I felt no fear for my life though.  I think it was just a panic they felt.  I thought it was a blast and was totally in control.  We went over, Bryan nailed me pretty hard as the boat bent, I about was knocked out then.  But I was able to pull back in, and worked at getting out.  It was hilarious the different responses people have.  The river was not very deep, and despite having waders (spelling ??) on, I did not think we were in any danger.  The other boat helped us get all of our floating objects that were flooded from our boat.  It was a great laugh.  I was dying to try it again.  Can’t wait to do the Snake or the Colorado.  Dad told me the time he went down the Colorado back in the 50’s.  Oh man, what a blast it must have been.  Spent some good time chatting with Bryan driving.  Man, he had quite a few concerns about my marrying Amanda.  I am glad they took everything in stride.  Over the weekend, I saw loads of characteristics in Bryan that Amanda possesses.  Interesting how much we get from our parents.
Last night we made the preparations for our trip to Richmond.  I contacted individuals for places to stay across the country.  I am really looking forward to it.  Our first night we will stay in Denver.  The second night we will stay in Independence, Missouri.  The next night and Sunday we will spend in Branson, Missouri.  The next night we will stay somewhere probably in Kentucky.  Don’t know where yet.  Then the next night we will stay in Lexington, Virginia.  The last day will be the ride into Richmond, unpacking, and returning our rented vehicle.  I am looking forward to it.  We will visit my family in Missouri on the Saturday, along with Liberty and Independence for church sites, and I would like to visit the Truman Library again.  We will have to see.  I visited with the Institute Director in Richmond, Virginia.  He gave me some good leads on people to contact and places to stay.  One of which I feel really good about I visited with today.  It is known there as Little Provo.  Despite my dislike for Provo, having other LDS people around, along with most of them at the dental school will be good.  Especially since Amanda can catch rides with them, and hopefully even be in classes with some of them.  The cost is a bit more than I would prefer, however, the other parts might make it worth it.  Especially if we have other people coming to visit.
Life continues well here in Provo.  I am enjoying life.  I have not any complaints.  We are still in the Primary, so we don’t deal with the rest of the ward.  It is a great blessing.  The Sunday before last we stayed with Amanda’s parents (Mother’s Day).  We got to take her grandparents back to Payson, and I enjoyed that visit.  We also had a little get together with Jill’s family.  It was good.  I enjoyed the time and stay.  I sprayed that same weekend and stopped in to see my Uncle and Aunt Ellis and Geri Jonas in Smithfield.  They are doing well.  Three of their four children’s families were all represented.  It was good to sit and visit with them all.  Life is good.  I spray again for Larry this weekend.  I am looking forward to it.  Larry let me borrow an album and a basket of pictures, of which I scanned over an hundred photos.  All on the Andra line.
Anyhow, I think I am going to close.  I have to go pick up Amanda here in a bit from work.  I continue to study for the LSAT in June.  I have spent considerable time praying about the issue and feel totally calm about it.  I feel no more panic or concern.  I will do what I can and take the test.  The outcome is whatever happens.  How can I expect to be something I am not.  I know very plainly that God will put me where he wants me, even if that might not be where I would like.  But I know Richmond is definitely the next step to pursue.  I do not know what what the future holds, even if law school is an option, but only time will tell.  Things are being prepared and laid out.  We will just have to wait and see.  We are living right and doing what we are supposed to.
Hope all is well.  Please feel free to drop me a line.  I love to hear from people.