Rosa Nelson Jonas

Christian & Rosa Andersen

This is another chapter of the Jonas history book compiled by Carvel Jonas.  This chapter relates to Rosa Nelson Jonas.  Reviewing this information in FamilySearch shows some changes and updates to some of the information presented.

The following story was written by Rosa and is typed from a hand-written copy in the possession of her daughter, Verla Jonas Andersen Lythgoe.

“The story of Mrs. Rosa Jonas Andersen.  Miss Rosa Nelson Jonas was born in Ellensburg, Kittitas County, Washington, on 5 Sep 1886, the third daughter of Annie Josephine Nelson Jonas and Joseph Jonas on a farm.

“Being Catholic, when about two months old, mother took me to church to be baptized, which was done by mother holding me in her arms, while the priest poured a few drops of water on my forehead.  (St. Andrew church records this date 26 Sep 1886)  In the meantime two persons stood by her side, one on each side of her, a man and a woman, they are called the God mother and father, they are to become your guardian in case anything happens to your parents.
“When I was about four years old, I followed a cousin of mine to school.  Not understanding the rules of school, I would talk out loud and go from one seat to another, so the teacher asked me if I hadn’t better go home, my mother may need me.  I told him oh, no she has got some more kids home.  I said it so loud the whole room began to laugh.  That got me, I was so hurt at being laughed at I never went back.
“The fall of 1895, we went to Yakima to pick hops.  Although only nine years of age, it was a very interesting trip.  People came from all parts of the country.
“One family in particular which attracted my attention was a family traveling in a covered wagon, which had on the outside “Olympia, Washington or bust.”  While picking hops they turned their chickens loose, and every night they would go to roost in the back of the wagon, they had a place fixed just on the outside of the end gate.  They stayed during the hop season, which lasts about a month or six weeks.
“We were paid one dollar a box and it took four, forty gallon barrels or what they called flour barrels to make a box of hops.  The hops were grown in large fields like we grow beets which was one of the prettiest sights I ever seen, to see the way the hops grew.  The rows were far enough apart to cultivate between with a cultivation horse.  Large poles were even so far apart with strong wire over the top to which a strong cord was tied and fastened to a peg driven in the ground, the hop vine would wrap around this string as it grew.  The hops were between six and nine inches long.  The most interesting part of this occasion was the Indians, whose camp was just across from where we made our camp.
“We were afraid to go too close so we stood off at a distance and watched them put up their tents.  The women or squaws as we call them, did all the work.

Rosa Nelson Jonas

“After we had been in camp about a week, while strolling through the bushes we came upon a squaw making a bed for a new baby, she dug a great big place in the ground, put a layer of rocks in it and made a fire on the rocks.  Of course, we didn’t know what she was making but I did know she didn’t want us standing around watching her, and would make motions with her hands for us to go away.  I told Mother and she said for us not to go around there any more, because the poor woman was sick.
“Well, we didn’t but one morning before sun up and the ground was white with frost, my sister and I went down to the river and to our great surprise we saw that same squaw that was sick with a tiny baby.  We watcher her undress her baby and in the cold water she dipped it.  We run home and told mother to come quick that an Indian was drowning her baby.  She laughed and told us she was giving her baby its morning bath.
“Now in the Catholic Church the Sunday School has two classes, one that they call the catechism and the other the Bible.  They are not allowed to go to Communion or partake of what we call the sacrament, until they graduate from the catechism (spelled Katakismn in her story) class.  The day before you go to communion the whole class has to go to confession, which is quite an affair.  I’ll try and describe how it is done.  They is say, a large closet with a partition running through the center making two average sized closets, with dark maroon draperies hanging in each door way.  You go to the right little room, and you’ll find a small bench, to the left, you kneel on it and you find a hole in the partition wall, that comes about to your chin, looking through that you see the Priest sitting in his nice comfortable overstuffed chair waiting to hear you confess your sins, which is done by your saying, “Father forgive me for telling a lie,” or whatever you done that was wrong since you went to confession last.  Your punishment is if you haven’t a rosary to get one.  It has from 25 to 20 beads each having a different design, each bead means a certain prayer.  I had to get one of those beads and say six hail Mary’s every night before retiring and every morning before dressing and two Apostle Creeds so I must have been one of the worst, I thought well, I’ll just show you Priest-I’m not going to freeze my toes saying that while I was kneeling by the bed side, so I’d get up in the center of the bed, cover the quits over my head and bury my face in the pillow and start praying just as fast as I could, sometimes I’d skip a bead and sometimes two, but that did not make any difference because I was covered and no one could see me, and that old Apostle Creed it was too long to say once, say nothing about saying it twice, not me, I didn’t see any sense in learning prayers out of a book when I wanted something because I thought the Lord wouldn’t understand what I wanted.
“Well the next day at Communion all the girls wore white dresses with veils and wreaths on their heads, and boys in black.  Up to the altar or railing covered in white you kneel down, put your hands under this white cover that goes over the railing, close your eyes, put your head back, open your mouth, put out your tongue and the priest will put this Communion on your tongue, don’t let it touch your teeth, close your mouth, bow your head.  When he had given each one in the class a Communion you all arise and go to your seat.  This Communion is about as large as a small sop cracker, I guess that is what it is from what I could see just partly closing my eyes.  I wanted to see what he was going to give me anyway and I did.  He took it out of a goblet with his forefinger and thumb and layed it on my tongue and stood there and drank the wine it was soaked in.
“In the year of 1901 July 3, I came to Utah.  Feb 6, 1902 I was baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, by N[els]. A[ugust]. Nelson who took a pick and broke the ice in the Jordan River in South Jordan, Salt Lake County, and was confirmed the same day by Bishop James P. Jensen.  In the year of 1903 I spent a week in the Salt Lake Temple being baptized for relatives and had my endowments and went through for those I was baptized for and had them sealed.  This made me sixteen years of age when I had my endowments.
In April 1902 I had my patriarchal blessing which (is) a great comfort and help to me because of the wonderful promise of temple work, and of the great relief it would be for those I did work for.  It sure is a great comfort to go and read it and reread it.  The more you read it, the more it means to you.  “So girls, don’t miss getting your Patriarchal Blessing.”
“The following is Rosa’s blessing. 
“A blessing given to Rosa Jonas, daughter of Joseph and Josephine Nelson Jonas born in Ellensburg, Kittitas Co, State of Washington. 
“Sister Jonas in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the power of the priesthood conferred upon me, I confer upon your a patriarchal blessing.  In as much as you desire to know what God requires of you.  If you are faithful you shall never be deceived.  You have a knowledge that God lives and your prayer will be answered in those things that will be for your good.
“You are of Israel and are entitled to the blessings which the gospel imparts, and although young, God will increase your testimony.  If you are humble, your heart will be fully satisfied.  Be careful of the company that you keep.  Be modest and careful in the selection of your companionship or you may be deceived.  There is much for you to do in the Temples of the Lord, and many of your ancestors names will be presented to you and they will bless you for the labor that you performed for them in the flesh.
God will give you judgement to select a man of God for a companion, who will lead you back into the presence of God from whence you came.
Cherish virtue more than your life.  Never allow yourself to step from the paths of truth and virtue for I seal this blessing upon you with all your born blessing and I seal you up unto Eternal Life, promising you that none of these blessings shall fail if humble on your part in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.”
Rosa lived with her Uncle August Nelson and did housework for her room and board.  She wasn’t very tall and some of her children have said she would measure to their arms if their arms were held out horizontal with the ground.  A guess she would be a few inches above five feet tall.  She had thin brown hair and brown eyes.  When she was young she had white hair, until it grew darker as she became a young woman.  All her siblings had white hair when they were children.  Her hair was probably thinned because of the typhoid epidemic which killed her older sister, Mary.  At that time Rosa’s hair fell out by the hand full.  Since Mary died 21 Sep 1899, Rosa would have been 13 years old when she lost her hair.  Rosa was the only left handed sibling.  I am told that Rosa would argue about religious doctrines with her brothers and would hit the stove with a pan to give emphasis to her point of view.  Apparently these siblings would argue and defend their point of view vigorously for a few hours at a time.  However, after their debates they were affectionate with each other and were able to be good friends after any discussions.  They were very loyal to each other.
“A land record in Logan tells us that on the 8 Nov 1905 Rosa and her husband, Christian Andersen, first bought their house in Richmond, Utah.  It was located at 137 East 1st South.  They bought lots 2 and 3 for $500.00.  They lived there until 2 Jun 1920 when they sold their house for $2400.00 and then moved to Thatcher, Idaho.  While they were living in Richmond two of her brothers would live with them from time to time.  William and Joseph would stay at her home when they came back from the Brigham Young College at Logan.  She also lived within about a block of her other brother, John, who had bought a home.  She was very helpful to her brothers by washing their clothes and given them a place to sleep when they came home during the weekends.  Joseph, her youngest brother, often sought her for advise, and often would take the advice of his sister in substitute of the parental advice he missed.  She lived in Thatcher, Idaho, with her two brothers on a far and after a short few years moved back to Richmond, Utah.  Later (about 1922) the family moved to Preston, Idaho at 295 West 4th South, where she died years after.  The following is quoted in the life story of her husband, Christian Andersen, and was written by their daughter, Mabel.
Father met my mother, Rosa Nelson Jonas, about a year before they were married.  One night (Christian) was singing and playing a lively song and mother and Aunt Delia walked into the dance hall and there sat father playing the accordion and singing this song.  Mother took one look at him and said to Aunt Delia, “I should think he would be ashamed of himself.”  She thought him repulsive at first.  But later on in years she rocked his little kids to sleep and he sang these very same songs to us.  Mother did not mind in the least.  Aunt Delia and Grandma Andersen decided that Christian and Rosa were meant for each other, so Aunt Delia gave a party and invited the Andersen boys.  They were a lively bunch and had a good time that night.”
“…Rosa made a nice cream cake with plenty of whipped cream on it.  (Christian) came to see her that evening in his rubber tired buggy so he could eat it, batched by himself…  On the way home father put the cake on the floor of the wagon so it would be safe.  The high spirited horse became frightened and started to run away.  Father pulled back on the lines and raised his foot up and set it down right in the middle of the cream cake!  When he got home he cut around his foot print and ate what he could of the cake.  As a result of these meetings father and mother were married on 29 Jun 1904 in the Salt Lake Temple.”
“Rosa wrote a letter to her oldest sister, Margaret, to apologize for not writing her until after she was married about her marriage.  Joseph Jonas, her father, wrote back and said that Margaret would forgive her because she had died.
Rosa became the mother of Christian’s two children, Pearl and Ivy, who were from Christian’s first marriage.  “Rosa was strict and so was Christian.”
“Rosa and Christian moved into a house in Richmond, Utah.  Christian added one room downstairs and two rooms upstairs and a bath.  He made a stairway and maintained a “well groomed house and yard.”  “We had a shanty or summer kitchen where “Rosa and her daughters” did the canning of fruit and washing.  The shanty was a couple of rods from the backdoor.  We had a cement sidewalk and a big stone rock for a step…”  Their “home had the first running water in it to come out of the wall hot… We had the first electric light in Richmond.”
Rosa and Christian had six children.  The first five were born in Richmond.  The last was born in Lewiston.  They are the following children: Mabel Rosetta, born 23 Oct 1905; Cyrus Christian, born 21 Dec 1907; Cleone Annetta, born 24 Nov 1909; Merlin Jonas, born 19 Sep 1913; Verla Jonas, born 16 Mar 1917; Arvie Jonas, born 31 May 1921.
“I remember moving from the ranch at Thatcher to Lewiston.  Mother was expecting Arvie and she rode in the back of the wagon on some hay.  The meager furniture was loaded into the wagon drawn by Jupiter and a bay horse named Sailor.  Verla was bundled up in blankets and quilts, also Merlin and I (Mabel).  Snow was on the ground, it was cold.  While we were pulling the dugway by Riverdale where it was icy and slick, ol’ Jupiter fell on his right front shoulder.  This turned the front wheels of the wagon causing it to tip.  But quick as a flash Jupiter was on his feet and gave a lunge throwing the wagon the other way.  Sailor pulled his line and up the dugway we went.  I always felt that I owed my life to Jupiter because if the wagon had gone over it would have dumped the stove on top of me…”  Another night during the trip they stayed at a range house and they fixed breakfast for them.  Joseph Nelson Jonas was driving the wagon.
“Rosa and Christian had one of the most beautiful homes.  (They) had a beautiful garden bed of tulips; and beds of gladiolas…(their) lawns were nice and green with no weeds…In Richmond and Preston they used to have large raspberry patches.  We girl used to get up at four in the morning and pick the berries before it would get too hot.  Then again at five in the afternoon when it was cooler we would again go into the patch and pick berries.  (Rosa) sold many of the berries to people living near.”

Rosa & Christian Andersen

“In the winter when the snow was deep a group of people would get together and decide to have a surprise on some member.  The women would open the door and yell SURPRISE!!!  In they would go and take all the furniture out of their room and take up the rug or carpet and start to dance.  Christian would be there with the accordion.  He would take a chair and sit in the corner and play all night.  About midnight they ladies would give the rest of the people lunch.  They  would eat and dance some more.  After the dance was over the men would carry the furniture back into the house again.”
“The following information was taken from the obituary of Rosa Nelson Jonas.  “Preston-Mrs. Rosa Jonas Andersen, 64, died in a Preston hospital at midnight Tuesday.  She served as president of the Young Women’s Mutual Improvement Association in the Preston Sixth Ward, as a Primary teacher, and for eight years was captain of the Hiawatha Camp, Daughters of Utah Pioneers.  Funeral services will be conducted on Saturday noon in the Preston Sixth Ward Chapel by Bishop A.C. Lundgreen.  Friends may call at the family home Friday evening and Sat. until time of the services.  Burial will be in the Ogden Cemetery under the direction of the Webb Mortuary of Preston.”

Milo Ross 1997 Interview

Interview of Milo Ross

By

Wayne Carver

08-13-1997

Tape I – A

University of Utah Veterans Commemoration in 2009

Wayne: Okay. I’m at Milo Ross’ home in Plain City, which is just through the lots from where I grew up at and the date is what, August the 13th?

 

Milo:    Probably the 13th today.

 

Wayne: Wednesday August 13th. This is tape one, side one of a conversation I’m having with Milo.

(tape stopped)

 

Milo:    Should have put on there Plain City.

 

Wayne: Oh, well, I’ll remember that.  But I have trouble if I don’t do that little preliminary stuff, is I get the tapes mixed up.  You have a quiet voice, so I think I could find a book or something to – oh—

 

Milo:    Here’s one right here.

 

Wayne: Just to prop this –

 

Milo:    How about this?  What do you need?

 

Wayne: Just something like this.

 

Milo Ross in uniform at Fort Lewis, Washington

 

Milo: Oh

 

Wayne: Since I want –

 

Milo: Here’s some more book.  You know, you said you was talking to Aunt Vic Hunt.  I’ll tell you a story about her.  She’s over to the rest home, see.  Yardley, he came in and he says – he and an attorney came in and he says, Mrs. Hunt, he says, you sure got a rhythm out of heart.  He says, you gotta start moving around taking it a little more easy, don’t hurt yourself.  She says, “listen you young punk.” she says, “Why don’t you tell me something I don’t know anything about. I’ve lived with that all my life,” she says.

 

Wayne: Well Paul – or Milo, can I just ask you a few obvious questions for the — and then – can you tell me your full legal name?

 

Milo: Do you wanna start now?

 

Wayne: yeah.

 

Milo: My name’s Milo James Ross.

 

Wayne: And what date were you born?

 

Milo: February the 4th, 1921.

 

Wayne: So, you’re two years older than I.

 

Milo: Born in ’21.

 

Wayne: Right, I was born in ’23?

 

Milo: ’23.

 

Wayne: Yeah. Where were you born?

 

Milo: Plain City.

 

Wayne: And who were your parents?

 

Milo: My mother was Ethel Sharp Ross.  That’d be Vic Hunt’s sister.  Ed Sharp’s sister, Dale Sharp’s sister.  My dad was Jack Ross.  And he came from Virginia.  They came out west and settled over in Rupert and Paul, Idaho.  When they found out they was gonna have a sugar factory in that area.  So, they run the railroad track a ride out.  What they really done, they bummed their way out on the railroad, flat cars at that time.  They was bringing coal and stuff out from Virginia out into that country.  And Dad and Grandad and all the relatives that could decided to come out.  And that was the only way they could afford to come out because nobody had any money.  So they settled around Paul and Rupert, Idaho area.  And that’s where my dad met my mother, Ethel Ross, because she had that store I was telling you about in Paul.

 

Wayne: Yes, go back and tell me again for the tape how your mom got up in Paul running a store.

 

Milo: Well, the – when they were going to work and back and forth from Plain City in to Ogden, they used to ride the Old Bamberger track out here.  And when they – when the first came out, they had a – it was an electrical trolley car, you probably remember it had an arm on top that had –

 

Wayne: Right, yeah.

 

Milo: — Track.  I remember riding the car once and I was down to Wilmer Maw’s helping them unload coal and stuff like that out of the boxcars down there.  But that old dummy car used to bring them cars down there.  They had a spur at Wilmer Maw’s store and also at Roll’s garage.  Stopped right there.

 

Wayne: That’s right, yeah, I remember that.

 

Milo: Then they used to ship vegetables and stuff out from the railroad track from there out.  But mother was going to Ogden on this – I don’t know how – how you call it a Bamberger Track Car, Trolley Car, or whatever you call it.  But when they got making a turn and transferring, probably around 17th street in there where they used to be the headquarters, they got bumped and some of them got knocked down and hurt.  I never did find out how bad my mother was, but the railroad company settled out of court and give them all so much money apiece, the ones that got hurt.

Well, my mother, she knew of a place in Paul Idaho that had some property.  She decided to go there and buy that little store front and live in Paul, Idaho, because she married this Mark Streeter at that time.  Maybe you remember him.

 

Wayne: oh, yes, yeah.

 

Milo: Mark Streeter.  They went into Paul, Idaho and –

 

Wayne: Was she married to Mark?

 

Milo: She got married to him –

 

Wayne: When the accident occurred:

 

Milo: No. not – not – just after.

 

Wayne: uh-hu.

 

Milo: But she got the settlement and he found out that she had the money and everything and she had gone to Idaho, so I figured he – he probably figured she was a rich old dog, he went to Idaho to marry her.

 

Wayne: I see yeah.

 

Milo: So he went to the – up the store, Paul, Idaho, up there and they got married.  And then they had a child, June Streeter, that lived with Dale Sharp, if you remember, for a long time.

 

Wayne: Yeah, vaguely.

 

Milo:  But – and then she stayed with the Streeters in Ogden most of her life, June did.  And then the war broke out, World War I.  Mark Streeter, her husband, joined the army and left my mother, Ethel Ross, Sharp Ross Streeter, abandoned in Idaho without a husband with this daughter, and he never did return.  So after so many years, my dad met my mother in Paul, Idaho at the store because the Ross had come there to work at the sugar factory from Virginia, the grandparents and the whole family, Phibbs and the whole – lot moving out, have a moved out down to there to try to get work.  So that’s how my dad met my mother was in Paul, Idaho, because they had Streeters confectionery.  And that’s (unintelligible).

 

Wayne:  Did your mother have no contacts up at Paul?  Were there Plain City people or-

 

Milo:  That’s something I never did know because Uncle Ed Sharp never told me.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  See, I was – mother came back here after she married dad, Jack Ross, we lived down by Abe Maw’s in an old log cabin house.

 

Wayne: With your father and mother?

 

Milo:  Yes, Jack and my mother, Ethel.  And then mother got sick with childbirth.  There was – here mother had Milo – well, she had June to start out with Streeter.

 

Wayne:  With Streeter, yeah.

Milo Ross in Canada 1986

 

Milo:  And then she had Milo, my name, Milo James Ross, with Jack Ross, dad.  And then there was Paul Ross.

 

Wayne:  Little Paul?

 

Milo:  Paul Ross, the blond, he fell out of Ed Sharp’s barn, broke his arm, fell on his head and concussion and he died when he was about 11 or 12 years old.

 

Wayne:  I remember that, yeah.

 

Milo:  And that was up at Ed Sharp’s barn.  Then there was Harold Ross, and then baby John Ross.  But John Ross died at childbirth with female trouble.  And that was down in Abe Maw’s property where the old log cabin house was.

And then when Mother died, my Dad, he had no way of feeding us down here because he’d come from Idaho down here with her to come back to live in Utah around her folks.  They decided to – he didn’t’ know what to do.  He couldn’t feed us.  So he went to each one of the Sharps families and Os Richardson ad everybody else and they said they wouldn’t help him.

 

Wayne:  Os had married Mary—

 

Milo: Mary –

 

Wayne:  –yeah.

 

Milo: — Sister to Ethel.

 

Wayne:  Mary Sharp.

 

Milo:  So – and Ray Sharp, he didn’t want us.  Over in Clinton.

 

Wayne:  Oh, I didn’t know him.

 

Milo:  Well, he was Ed Sharp’s brother.  There was Ed Sharp, lived out here, and Dale Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  But it was hard times for everybody.  They didn’t have no money to feed nobody extra.

 

Wayne:  This would be in the twenties?

 

Milo:  That would be back in nineteen twenty – I was born in ’21 and I was five when I come back here, when they brought – the Sharps brought us back here from going back to Idaho.  But when I was five, my dad took us to the hot springs and carried us kids – took us to the hot springs, and put us on an old – I don’t know whether the church built a railroad track into Idaho or not.  But they got on a dummy or a car and they went into Paul, Idaho, from the hot springs at that time.

 

Wayne:  And you went up on that?

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  And –

 

Milo:  My dad?

 

Wayne:  — Harold.

 

Milo:  — Harold.

 

Wayne: And Paul.

 

Milo: And Paul.

 

Wayne:  And you went back up to Paul?

 

Milo:  Paul, Idaho.  I was – I was in the neighborhood about four years old at that time when he took us back.

 

Wayne:  Now, he went with you?

 

Milo:  He took us back there because dad – Grandpa and Grandma lived in Paul or Rupert, right in that area.

 

Wayne:  Grandpa and Grandma –

 

Milo:  Ross.

 

Wayne:  –Ross?

 

Milo: Ross.

 

Wayne:  Okay, yeah.

 

Milo:  And they was from – Where’d I tell you?

 

Wayne: Virginia:

 

Milo:  Virginia.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.  And how long did you live up there?

 

Milo:  About a year.  But you see, there was no money to feed kids.  They couldn’t buy groceries and stuff.  They came out here poor people.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And they was working at the railroad – sugar factory trying to make a dollar.  And Mother, she figured maybe send the kids – when she got sick, send them back up to Grandpa and Grandma.  And see, Grandpa and Grandma was old and they couldn’t take care of us, so she – she just couldn’t make a go of it with the store and because she was sick, you know, with childbirth.  And then they – I don’t know what they done with the store and everything back up there, but it really wasn’t a lot, but still it was a place they was making a little money.

 

Wayne:  But had your mom passed away by –

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  – – When you went back?

 

Milo: Yes.

 

Wayne:  Did she die down here?

 

Milo:  She died in the log cabin house.

 

Wayne:  So she’s buried in the Plain City Cemetery?

 

Milo:  Right on Ed Sharp’s lots next to Ed Sharp and his wife. (Telephone rings.) Let me catch that.

 

Wayne:  Can I borrow – –

(Pause in Tape.)

 

Milo:  … Ross and gas station there at five points.  And this is his boy, Nick Kuntz, married this Rhees girl and the lived right across the street.

 

Wayne:  I probably know her aunts and uncles up in Pleasant View.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Beth and – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  – -Dorothy and – –

 

Milo:  See, her dad helped build these homes here for Jones when they built this housing unit when they bought that ground from Blanch Estate there.

 

Wayne:  Oh, the Wheeler – –

 

Milo:  Wheeler Estate.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But I was telling you about my mother.

 

Wayne:  Yeah

 

Milo:  Go ahead and tell me what you want.

 

Wayne:  No, that’s fine because I don’t know this story.  Harold told me some of it years ago, but – –

 

Milo:  But – – are you still on tape?

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  I’ll tell you a little bit more about dad and mother.  My dad, he always walked to work.  They had no cars then.  They had horses and buggies and that’s about all.  And he walked from Plain City over to Wilson Lane to work at the sugar factory.

 

Wayne:  Oh, yeah.

 

Milo:  And let Folkman – –

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  – – Mark Folkman, them guys used to walk through the fields to Wilson Lane every day.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: Or ride a horse.

 

Wayne: Yeah, that’s four miles or so.

 

Milo: Four or five, yeah.

 

Wayne:  Four or five, yeah.

 

Milo:  Used to go over there to work at the sugar factory.

 

Wayne:  Yeah

 

Milo:  And whenever they come home or anything like that, they’d bring groceries and stuff home and carry it, you know, they – – nobody had transportation at that time.  But it was tough for everybody.  You don’t – – you talk about money, there was no money.  They used – – they used scrip money, you remember, for a long time they give them kind of a paper money.  If you took a veal or something to town, they’d give you scrip money for it, and then you could trade it back for groceries.

 

Wayne:  Can you remember the scrip money?

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  I don’t think I can.

 

Milo:  I’ve got – – I’ve got some papers and stuff like the stamps they used to save, sugar stamps and stuff – –

 

Wayne:  During the war.

 

Milo:  During the war – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – You had to have a stamp and stuff like that.

 

Wayne:  Remember those tax tokens:

 

Milo:  I saved – –

 

Wayne:  Plastic – –

 

Milo:  I tacked some of them with a hole in them, you know.

 

Wayne:  Yeah

 

Milo:  They called them Governor Blood money or something, your dad did – –

 

Wayne:   Yeah

 

Milo:  – – Mr. Carver.  But there was no money for nobody around the country.  And my Dad tried to feed us kids when we went back to Idaho wit Grandpa and Grandma.  And they was – – they was probably like some of us today, didn’t have shoes – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – You know what I mean?

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  Hard going.

 

Wayne: Did your Dad go back with you to Paul

 

Milo: He rode back to Paul and stayed back there.  He worked at the sugar factory for a long time with Grandpa.

 

Wayne:  Uh – huh

 

Milo:  And the Phibbs, there used to be a Judge Phibbs that married into the Ross Family.  And they stayed in that area there for a long time.  But I’ve – – my son now, Paul Ross, Milo Paul Ross, he’s – – he lives in Paul, Idaho.

 

Wayne:  Oh, does he?

 

Milo:  And it’s quite a coincidence, you know, and – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – I went back and I was gonna try to buy the building, one thing another, but it’s so hard to get the records and everything.  But I do have the records and plot plan and some papers of my mother’s.

 

Wayne:  Is the old store building – –

 

Milo:  The old – –

 

Wayne: – – Still there?

 

Milo:  The old store is there.  I wanted to try to buy it, but Paul, Idaho, wants to restore the – – that street.  Kind of run down, dilapidated, you know.  They don’t wanna do anything right now until they get the money to go ahead and do things like that with it.  But my dad called and said for the Sharps to come and get the boys because they couldn’t feed us.  So that’s why Ed Sharp, Dale Sharp, and Fred Hunt, Aunt Vic Hunt, they took each one of us a kid.  Ed Sharp took me Milo.

 

Wayne:  Uh – huh.

 

Milo:  Dale Sharp took Harold.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  And Fred Hunt, that would be Aunt Vic, my mother’s sister, Vic Hunt, they took Paul.  And then June, she stayed with the Streeters all the time.

 

Wayne:  Now, they’re in Ogden.

 

Milo:  In Ogden.

 

Wayne:  Uh – huh

 

Milo:  So that’s how – – that’s why June didn’t stay here with us all the time.

 

Wayne:  Now, this Streeter business, did – – Mark you say disappeared.

 

Milo:  Right.

 

Wayne:  Did he never come back?

 

Milo:  He came back later on in years.  He went as prisoner – – He went A.W.O.L.

 

Wayne:  Uh – huh.

 

Milo: Do you understand me?

 

Wayne: Yeah

 

Milo:  They called him a traitor of the country.  They figured he spied against the United States.

 

Wayne:  Was he overseas?

 

Milo:  I don’t know.

 

Wayne:  Good heavens, I – –

 

Milo:  But, you know, you hear these stories.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And then in World War II, he done the same thing.  He collaborated with the Japanese out of San Francisco, see.

 

Wayne: Good Lord.

 

Milo:  Yeah, Mark Streeter.  But he says he didn’t, but he did.  You understand me?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  He – – He seemed like he always had his nose with the enemy.  You understand what I mean?

 

Wayne:  Yeah

 

Milo:  Trying to make money that way.

 

Wayne:  What did he do to make a living when he came back?

 

Milo:  He’s just a dog catcher, something, picked up side jobs, Mark Streeter.

 

Wayne:  Of course mother had divorced him then – –

 

Milo: right.

 

Wayne:  – – on grounds of desertion.

 

Milo:  desertion.

 

Wayne: Okay

 

Milo:  That’s why she married my Dad.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  But, see, Dad called the Sharps and asked them to come and get the kids.  So that would be in the wintertime they come and got us, and Ed Sharp took me, Fred Hunt took Paul, Dale Sharp took Harold.

 

Wayne:  And June?

 

Milo:  Stayed with the Streeters.

 

Wayne:  In Ogden.

 

Milo:  Grandma Streeter.

 

Wayne:  And she was – – she was a Streeter.  Her father had been Mark Streeter.

 

Milo:  My sister is a Streeter.  I’m a Ross.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  We’re half.

 

Wayne:  Yeah. Is – – is June still alive?

 

Milo:  June’s still alive.  She lives down in California.

 

Wayne:  I don’t think I ever knew her, but I’m sure she was in Plain City a lot.

 

Milo:  She stayed around with Fern Sharp all the time.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  They used to come out and stay there.  And – –

 

Wayne:  When she went – – when she came down from Paul and you guys went to the Sharps, she went – – did she stay with Mark Streeter then her father.

 

Milo:  Mark Streeter’s mother.

 

Wayne:  Oh, not with Mark?

 

Milo:  Well, Mark Streeter lived with his mother.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  Do you understand it?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And, oh, you remember Christensen, lives down by the store.

 

Wayne: Pub?

 

Milo: Yeah

 

Wayne:  And Cap – –

 

Milo:  He – – he lived down below Jack’s garage.  But he had a brother that lived up by – –  Ralph Taylor lives there now.

 

Wayne:  Well, Cap Christensen – –

 

Milo: Cap Christensen.

 

Wayne: A – – (Unintelligible)

 

Milo:  That was Cap, wasn’t it?

 

Wayne:  Yeah, that was Cap.

 

Milo:  Yeah.  But you see, they had a daughter, would be Harold Christensen and – –

 

Wayne:  And Max.

 

Milo: Max and all them – –

 

Wayne:  Artell.

 

Milo: Artell.

 

Wayne: (Unintelligible)

 

Milo:  Artell used to run around with my sister, June, and Fern Sharp – –

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo: – – The three of them.  You probably remember them together.

 

Wayne:  I just spent an afternoon with Fern.

 

Milo:  Did you?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Fern Sharp?

 

Wayne:  Yeah. Shields.

 

Milo:  Yeah

 

Wayne:  Well, I’ve got that straight at last then.  But do you know how long Mark Streeter was away before he came back?

 

Milo:  Mark Streeter must have been away about four, five years, a deserter of the country.

 

Wayne:  I wonder what he did in those – –

 

Milo:   They – – they figured he was a traitor to the United States.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But he said he was sick in the hospital.  They – – I really never did know.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  I wonder if anyone does.

 

Milo:  The only way you could ever find out would be to go through court records.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Weber County.

 

Wayne:  Yeah. Okay.  So that you’re with Ed, Paul’s with – –

 

Milo:  Fred and Vic.

 

Wayne:  – – Fred and Vic, and Harold’s with Dale and – –

 

Milo:  Violet.  She was – –

 

Wayne: Violet.

 

Milo:  Her name was Violet Grieves before she married Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  She’d be related to Pete Grieve and them.

 

Wayne:  Uh – huh

 

Milo:  And they would be related to the Easts in Warren.  And Ed Sharp’s wife was East from Warren.

 

Wayne:  She was.

 

Milo:  So see, there’s kind of a – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – Intermarriage through the – – each family down through that line down – – but when Dad told the Sharps to come and get us out of Idaho, they came up to get us.  And I was about five years old when they come.  And before – – before we was ready to come home to Utah again, us kids was playing in bed and I got a – – a fishhook caught in the bottom part of my eyelid here.

 

Wayne:  Good Lord.

 

Milo:  And I was only maybe five years old and – –

 

Wayne: yeah.

 

Milo:  – – I remembered it.  And I can remember my Grandpa telling me, do not pull, leave it alone, leave it alone, and he said, I’ll have to get you some help.  So, they went and got some help and these guys come back and I heard one of them say, you take his feet and I’ll take his arms.  You know.  And somebody else hold his head.  So, what they done, they – – they – – I think they must have cut the hook or something and then reversed and took it out.  I don’t know what they done.  But it was caught in the bottom of my eyelid.  But they – – I was sore of that when I come to Utah.  And then when – – I don’t know whether Dale Sharp was with Os Richardson when they come up to get us or not.  But they come up in a big car to Paul, Idaho, and they brought us home across the Snake River at Paul, between Paul and Rupert there someplace to bring us back home.  And every so often, I’d look back and I – – I thought I could always see Grandpa and Grandma and my Dad waving goodbye to me.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  And farther down the road we got, it seemed like we were always stopping, the car had trouble or something, tires or something.  Putting water in it and that this – –

 

Wayne: This is Os and Mary’s car.

 

Milo: Yes.

 

Wayne: Did Mary come up?

 

Milo: I don’t remember whether Aunt Mary was with us or not.  I don’t remember who was in the car, but I do remember Os Richardson because he was kind of a heavyset man and he was quite blunt.

 

Wayne: Yeah, I remember him.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  He was our neighbor down at Warren.

 

Milo: Yeah

 

Wayne:  Yeah

 

Milo:  He was quite blunt.  And he’s – – I figured him a mean man.

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo:  And when I’d wave, he’d also say, put your arm down, you know, don’t distract me, and this and that, you know.

 

Wayne: Yeah

 

Milo:  But we rode in the back seat, but I’d look back and didn’t matter which hill.  I could see my Grandpa and Grandma.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.   Yeah.

 

Milo:  But it was quite an experience.  We came home and they.

 

Wayne:    How old you were then, Milo?

 

Milo:  Five years old.

 

Wayne:  Five.

 

Milo:  But they – – they brought me back and give me to Ed Sharp.  And they took Paul down and left him with Fred and Vic.  And then they took Paul – – Harold down and give him with Dale Sharp.  But I think Dale Sharp went us with us – – them to bring us back.  And we were only within what, two or three blocks of each other, and yet I couldn’t go see him.  They was afraid I’d run away.

 

Wayne: Oh

 

Milo:  So I was kind of quarantined, you know, and you’ll get to see him on the weekend.  You know, they was trying to separate us.

 

Wayne:  Could be, yeah.

 

Milo:  And when Paul come here, he had a hernia down right this side of his groin.  And when he’d cough or sneeze, it’d pop open like a ball inside.

 

Wayne:  He’s just a little boy.

 

Milo: Little boy.  And it would pop open and they had kind of a – – like a leather strap or something around there and a pad around it to kind of hold it in – –

 

Wayne:  A truss.

 

Milo: – – Truss or something.

 

Wayne:  A trust, yeah.

 

Milo:  But it was tough for us kids.

 

Wayne:  I’ll bet it was tough.

 

Milo:  It was tough.

 

Wayne:  You – – you were the oldest.

 

Milo:  I was the oldest, five.

 

Wayne:  Five and – –

 

Milo:  Four and three.

 

Wayne:  Harold was four – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  No, Harold was – –

 

Milo:  Paul.

 

Wayne: Paul.

 

Milo:  And Harold.  Five, four, three.

 

Wayne:  Five, four, three.  Yeah and June was maybe six?

 

Milo:  She was probably two years older than us.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Three, I don’t remember just what.

 

Wayne:  Did you ever see your dad – –

 

Milo:  Yes, sir.

 

Wayne:  – – Again:

 

Milo:  After the war, I went into the service, World War II, and I received a letter from Livermore, California, and it stated that my Dad was a veteran, World War I, and he was in Livermore, California not expected to live over maybe a week, three, four days.  And he would like to see one of his boys if they’d like to come and see him before he died.  And the Sharps and everybody told me leave him alone because he was a no good man.  He never cared about us.

Well, I’d married my wife, Gladys, and we had this son, Milo Paul, but her dad Donaldson says, “Heck, Milo, if you wanna go down see your dad,” he says, “I’ll give you the greyhound bus fair down.  $55, $80, whatever it is.”

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  He said you’ll have to thumb your way back.  I said, well, if I get down there I’ll get to see him, that’d be fine.  I asked my wife, if it would be all right to go, and she said yes.

 

Wayne:  Were you living in Plain City?

 

Milo:  Living in Plain City.  And we were renting at that time just a house, you know.  And I says to Dale Sharp and them, I says, I thought maybe I’d go down and see my Dad.  And they says, forget about him.  Him he’s no good son of a bugger, you know, they called him by a name – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – So I decided to go and I went to Livermore, California, and I jumped a ride out with an army truck and to Livermore, California, Hospital.  I got there late – –

 

Wayne:  Was this an army hospital?

Milo:  Yeah. Veterans’ Hospital, Livermore.  And I got there late in the evening.  And nothing was going around and nobody was doing anything, it was on the weekend.  So I go into the hospital and nobody’s around so I just kind of walked through the – – it was late and maybe 1:00, 1:30 in the evening, night.  And I walked down through the halls and went up on the second floor and walked down the aisle a little bit, and I thought, well, maybe what I better do is just sit here in the corner, and maybe have a catnap for a while.  Then I heard somebody cough, and heard them say, “what time is it?”  And somebody said, “it’s about 1:30, 2:00 o’clock,” see?  So I heard this talking and I walked down the hall a ways and I seen the one light on one of the beds and I says – – stepped towards the door, and I says, “Does anybody happen to know a Jack Ross or anybody in here, is anybody here can hear me?”  And a voice come back and it says, yes.  “Come on in, Milo or Harold.  I’m your Dad.”

 

Wayne:  Oh, boy.

 

Milo:  And I walked right to that man’s door.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  And It’s – – And about that time, two guys grab me by the arm and escorted me out of the room.  And they gonna have me put in jail because he had no visitors.  You understand me?  He was on oxygen and this and that.   So I says, “Oh, what difference does it make?”  I said, “I’m his son.  I don’t remember my dad.”  I says “At least you could do is let me tell him goodbye.  If he’s gonna die, what difference does it make?”  So these two orderlies says, “you stay outside for a while.”  So I stood there by the door and they hurried and they put some needles and stuff in his legs.  Was probably giving him morphine or something.  I don’t know what they were doing, trying to do keep him alive longer, something, I don’t know what they were doing.  But I says to the one gentleman, he run past me fast, and I says, “Couldn’t I just say goodbye to my dad anyway?” And he said, “Well, just wait a while.”  So pretty soon there was about three of them over my dad working with him, and finally the one young man says to the rest, he says, “Oh, let the kid come in and say goodbye to his dad.” So I walked in, talked to dad.  He says, “I’m sure glad you come.”  And I said, “Well, I’m Milo.”  And I said, “I don’t remember you, Dad,” but I says, “I decided after reading the Red Cross letter I would come and see and you tell you hello.  Tell you thanks for letting me have a Dad, anyway.”

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So he says, “Well, Milo,” he said, “I’m gonna tell you a secret.” He says, “When I took you kids to Idaho, I was a son of a bitch.”  Then he says, “When I got into Idaho, he says, I was a son of a bitch.”  And he says, “It didn’t matter what I done, I was a son of a bitch.”  He said, “Then they told me if I ever come back to see my kids after I sent you down to Utah, they would kill me.”

 

Wayne:  The Sharps told him?

 

Milo:  The Sharps.  I says, “Which one of the Sharps?”  And he says, “It’s best not to say, Milo.”  But he says, “I’ll tell you secret, if you don’t think I ever come to see you, ask Betty Boothe.”  He says, “You remember Betty Boothe?”  And I said, “She’s been in my home, many, many, many times.”  And he says, “I come out in a taxi cab three times, and I got Betty Boothe to go with me to see you kids.”  And he said, “I rode out to Ed Sharp’s Farm and I didn’t dare get out of the taxi.  Because I – – I was threatened I’d be killed.”  So he says, “I did wave out of the taxicab and sit there and watch you out in the field,” us kids.  And says, “If you don’t think I did,” he says, “ask Betty Boothe.”  And then I got a different feeling towards my Dad – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – when he said that.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, I can imagine.

 

Milo:  Because I could see – – now I have letters that was sent to the Sharps and the Hunts and they hid the letters from us kids.  They would not tell us that Dad and Grandpa sent us letters or anything.  And I have these letters.  And in these letters it’s Grandpa and Grandma asking please, tell us how the little kids are.  And then my Dad, he wrote a letter and he says – –

 

Wayne:  Now, were there – – they up in Paul all this time.

 

Milo:  Paul, Idaho, all that time.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  But the Sharps and them, they’d never read us the letters and everything because they – – they wanted us to be with them.  The Sharps and Hunt.  Do you understand?

 

Wayne:  Yeah, I understand.

 

Milo:  Kind of hard – – but I have those letters.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And when – –

 

Wayne:  He was thinking about you a lot more than you thought he was.

 

Milo:  Well, this is the bad part about life.  Now, Aunt Vic Hunt, when Fred Hunt died, Howard Hunt got killed in the war, her son – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: – – Fred Hunt got – – died.  Bert Hunt, their son, got electrocuted and Bob, the grandson, got electrocuted.

 

Wayne:  I remember that.

 

Milo:  The night before they got electrocuted, I helped Bert Hunt carry the milk from the barn to the milk parlor where Bert and his boy got electrocuted.    And I helped carry that milk cans the same as they did the night before.

But Aunt Vic Hunt says, “Oh, Milo, she says, I just feel like I – – I’m being punished for something.”  She says, “I’ve got a box here that came from you folks.”  And she says, “I’ve got all these letters and everything.”  She says, “I’ve read them.  And I’ve never told you about them.”  But she says, “I’m not gonna give them all to you now, but I will give you some of them.”  So she give me some of the letters.  And she had kind of an old cigar box.  Remember the old cigars boxes with a lid on it?  And she says, “I’ll give you this, too.”  She says, “I think maybe I’ve been punished long enough now.”  She says, “I’ve lost too many in my family.  Maybe I’m being punished because I haven’t been fair to you kids.”  She says, “Here’s the box, the gifts and everything they’ve sent to you.”  I says, “Aunt Vic, if that means that much to you,” I says, “You keep the box.  And then when you’re dead and gone, you tell your family to give it to me.”   But I says, “I will take these letters.  And I sure love you for it.  And thanks for being good to us kids.”  And I says, “Gladys and I will go now.”  My wife was with me.  She was really brokenhearted.  I told her she was forgiven and everything.  I says, “Live you life out.”  I done  a lot a work for aunt Vic after that.  Helped her wire the house and anything went wrong, I’d go help her, help her, help her, help her, help her.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But when she – – she died, the family never did give me the cigar box of stuff back.  They kept it.  And I think today Archie Hunt probably has it.

 

Wayne:  Now who would – – who is he?

 

Milo:  That would be Vic Hunt’s boy, grandson.  Bret Hunt – –

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  – – That got electrocuted.  This is my wife and daughter, if you’d shut that off a second I’ll help them.

 

(pause in the tape.)

 

Milo:  The letters and stuff that my wife and I got from my aunt Vic Hunt.  And when I read them, I – –  I felt a lot better towards my dad and my family because it’s – – they wanted to separate from us that Ross family altogether.  But I have an old, old bible on the Ross side that’s a great big hardback bible from Virginia.  And I have a half-brother back there.  And my dad had married a day lady back there.  When my mother died, he went back to Virginia to see if he could make ends meet to bring the family maybe to Virginia.  But he couldn’t make a go of it with the day.  And this son of his, Hobart Day, he told him about having a family here, Milo, Paul, and Harold, and John that died.  Well, all these years, Hobart, the half-brother back there, instead of keeping the Ross family, he kept the Day family.  So he kept the old bibles and everything back Virginia at the home back there.  So I got Hobart, after I made contact with him after doing genealogy work after the war, then he – – I bought his way out here, him and his wife out here twice to visit with us.  And he brought this old, old bible out here and it’s one of the King James, I’d say it’s about five, six inches deep, hardback.  You’ve probably seen them.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But I that have of the Ross Family there, but it’s quite a deal, you know.

 

Wayne:  Did you ever see your Ross grandparents?

 

Milo:  Not after.  See, they were old and feeble.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  I never even got to go to their funeral.  That’s what makes it bad.  But my brother, Harold Ross, his wife, Colleen Hancock, she done a lot of genealogy work and she’s the one that got us together on genealogy to get the Ross family back to Virginia.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And Hobart Day, the half-brother.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But it’s – – and then I have – – I have my grandparents’ old china cabinet.  And I have the old wooden washing machine.  And I have the old cream separator they used to turn the handle on.

 

Wayne:  Now, Which grandparents?

 

Milo:  The Ross and the Sharps.

 

Wayne:  After the – – your Ross grandparents passed away?

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  And Paul.

 

Milo:  Yeah, I’ve got part of their – –

 

Wayne:  How did you get those – – That?

 

Milo:  Through the – – through the people in Idaho.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  See, they – – they set them aside.

 

Wayne:  In the ward – – well, they weren’t church members, were they?

 

Milo:  No.  They were Presbyterians.  They were not LDS.  But I have this old wooden wash machine.  I’ve recent – – redone it and put it together.  Made new stays for it so every part works on it and all the metal.

 

Wayne:  Did you go up and bring them back?

 

Milo:  No, they were given to me from Paul or Rupert, Idaho.  On the Phibbs side family or something like that.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So I do have – – And then on the Grandma Sharp side, I have parts of her old stuff, too, books and stuff.  I have my mother’s records of Paul, Idaho store where they – – where they sold eggs, a dozen eggs like for two and a half, three cents.

 

Wayne:  A dozen.

 

Milo:  A dozen.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Yeah.  They – – It’s amazing.  I have – – I have a lot of old antiques and stuff.  Before you leave, I’ll show you lot of my old antiques and let you see the washer and stuff like that.

 

Wayne:  I’d like to see that.

 

Milo:  Then maybe someday you’d like to come by and take a picture or of them or something.  Or you can talk to them – – while we’re looking at them, talk to us.

 

Wayne:  While we’re on family, your mother was a Sharp.

 

Milo:  Ethel Sharp.  Her dad was – – they lived where Ernie Sharp lived.  Milo Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Oh, yes.  Now, was it Milo – – Milo Sharp was one of them group that separated from the church, was he not?  And they became Episcopalians.

 

Milo:  Right.

 

Wayne:  Do you know anything about the cause of that split?

 

Milo:  One Bishop.

 

Wayne:  Really:  I’ve not been able to pinpoint it.

 

Milo:  The way I understand it, they – – they asked them to pay a tenth of the tithing of everything.  And he – – he told them if they killed a beef, he wanted a certain part of that beef.

 

Wayne:  The Bishop told them?

 

Milo:  The Bishop.

 

Wayne:  Do you know who the Bishop was?

 

Milo:  I think Thatcher.  Does that sound right?

 

Wayne:  That sounds too late.  Gil Thatcher was Bishop,  we’re back in 1869 and ’70 when this Schism, this Split, so it wasn’t Gil Thatcher.

 

Milo:  Well, I don’t know for sure.

 

Wayne:  Shurtliff, maybe.

 

Milo:  I was back in that area.  But the Bishop at that time, the Hunts excommunicated from the church also.  Fred Hunt, Vic Hunt, all them, they went to Episcopal Church.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  They build the Episcopal church down by Dean Baker’s there.  They use that for the Lions Club now.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  My mother used to be the organist for it for many years, they said.

 

Wayne:  Your mother Ross?

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.  But she was a Sharp, Ethel Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Of course, Sharp.

 

Milo:  She was a Sharp.  She played the organ for them when she was younger.  And she played the organ and kind of led the music and everything like that.

 

Wayne:  You know, Vic didn’t know for sure what had caused – – it was her father, Milo.

 

Milo:  Right, Milo.

 

Wayne:  And he – – she said, oh, Wayne, they liked their – – to play cards and they did a lot of things that church didn’t like and they just finally got tired of it.  But I think there was some – – something somewhere.

 

Milo:  It was over – – it was over the meat.  Dale Sharp – –

 

Wayne:  Uh – huh.

 

Milo:  – – Took care of Harold and Ed Sharp took care of me.  And Ed Sharp gave the church an awful lot.  He used give them the asparagus, he used to give them potatoes.  When they harvest or anything like that, he’d say, Bishop Heslop, Bishop Maw, whoever the Bishop was, come up and get sacks of stuff for some of the people.  But Ed Sharp and them, they always give to the Mormon church.

Now, when they built the Plain City church down here, they used to sell cakes and stuff, raffles.

 

Wayne:  The new one?

 

Milo:  The new one.

 

Wayne:  That’s gonna be torn down.

 

Milo:  Yeah, but I – – see, I helped build that.  I was a carpenter on it and Lee Carver was the supervisor on it.  And I was – – George Knight was the Bishop on it.  But when they auctioned these cakes and that off, Fred Hunt was probably one of the ones that bought the cakes probably more than anybody.  He probably paid four, five hundred dollars for a cake.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, yeah.

 

Milo:  So you see, it wasn’t religion against religion because they did  – –

 

Wayne:  Not by that time.

 

Milo:  – – They were together.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  But the earlier Sharps and some of them, And I think some of the Taylors pulled away from the church, too – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: – – And they went farther east.

 

Wayne:  The Thomases.

 

Milo: Thomases, they pushed out, too, on account.

 

Wayne:  But then they slowly worked back.

 

Milo:  Come back in.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  As a little guy then living in a family that was not LDS – –

 

Milo:  Right.

 

Wayne:  – – What was your religious upbringing, Milo?

 

Milo:  Never had much.  We did go to church.

 

Wayne:  To the LDS?

 

Milo:  No.

 

Wayne:  Or to the Episcopalian?

 

Milo:  Episcopalian – –

 

Wayne:  Really.

 

Milo:  When we went to Idaho, see, they didn’t have a Mormon church there.  See, the Presbyterian, whatever it is.  But I’ve got some of my mother’s song books and stuff, some of the old songs books.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  They sing the same songs there as we do today in our church.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  It’s kind of nice.

 

Wayne:  I can remember as a kid, we would hear the bell ring, the bells – –

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  – – Ring, and we’d run down to the end of the lane – –

 

Milo:  To look at it.

 

Wayne:  – – And look at the people going to church.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  But that – – those were – – those were only maybe once a month or whenever the minister could come out – –

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  – – From Ogden.  And that someone told me, I think, oh, Leslie’s wife, Ruth – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  – – Poulson, that there was a lady lived out in Plain City, lived in that house where Leslie and Ruth lived, who was kind of she – – the representative of the Episcopalian Church, and she taught school.

 

Milo:  Uh-hu.

 

Wayne:  Did you go to that school?

 

Milo:  I didn’t.

 

Wayne:  Might not have been around when you – –

 

Milo:  If you reach down there to your right side down there’s a little tiny book right there.

 

Wayne:  This one?

 

Milo:  I got a lot of little books like that.  That book right there came from Huntsville.  That came from the Joseph Peterson’s library in Huntsville probably, huh?

 

Wayne:  Yeah, yeah.

 

Milo:  But I’ve got – – I pick up all these books and stuff like this when I’m out around traveling, and I buy them and get them.

 

Wayne:  Yeah

 

Milo:  Now, I’ve got a lot of books like this and I’ve got a lot of mother’s books and stuff where she’s wrote poetry and stuff.  My mother wrote a lot of poetry.  And Albert Sharp got almost all the poetry and everything of my mother’s.  So if you got on the Sharp – –

 

Wayne:  I did talk to Albert, but I didn’t see any of your mother’s poetry.

 

Milo:  She wrote a lot of poetry.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.  Well, that was probably true of Harold growing up with Dale Sharp – –

 

Milo:  Non Mormons.

 

Wayne:  But Harold went to Mutual with us.

 

Milo:  We went to Mutual.

 

Wayne:  You went to Mutual.

 

Milo:  I went to Mutual.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.  And Harold became a member of the LDS Church.

 

Milo:  Right.  So did I later.

 

Wayne:  Do you know – –

 

(End of Tape I-A.)

 

Wayne:  …Of a conversation with Milo Ross in Plain City.

 

Milo:  See, when we were – – When we went to school, we – – they’d always ask us to go to Sunday School or Mutual or whatever they had.

 

Wayne:  Primary.

 

Milo:  Primary.

 

Wayne:  Did you go across the square – –

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  – – to – –

 

Milo:  Yeah, we always – – he went anyway.

 

Wayne:  Sure.

 

Milo:  You know, because everybody kind of went together.  Then we went to Weber High.  I took Seminary.

 

Wayne:  You did?

 

Milo:  So – – well, Ruth took Seminary too.  Your sister, Ruth.

 

Wayne:  Oh sure.  So did I.

 

Milo:  So we took – – we took Seminary – –

 

Wayne:  Floyd Eyre.

 

Milo:  – – Together.  We took seminary from Mr.  Eyre, he was the principal, he was the teacher of it.  But, you know, I enjoyed – – I enjoyed listening to the stories.  Then I enjoyed taking the assignments, reading certain scriptures and things that they give us.

At that time, they did not press the Book of Mormon like they do now.

 

Wayne:  No, I think that’s true.

 

Milo:  See, And – – But I enjoyed it.

 

Wayne:  And Ernie didn’t object to this?

 

Milo:  Nobody ever – – nobody ever objected to anything.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  It’s like the Martinis and the Ropalatos in West Weber, I’ve done a lot of building for them.  The old grandpa and grandma and them guys, you’re not gonna convert them, but you see the young girls and the young boys are joining the Mormon church.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh, yeah.

 

Milo:  See, the Martini girls marries the Dickemores that’s Mormons.  So see they – – but the old – –

Turn that off just a minute.

(Tape pauses.)

 

Milo:  …Truck – – truck and trailer all loaded.  And I seen aunt Vic get hit.  She came up to the stop sign from the west side and she stopped.  And then she went to go across the road, and when she went to go across the road, there was a car came from the north, I’d say hundred miles an hour, some young girl.  And the young girl was gonna pass her on the front as aunt Vic went ahead.  She throwed on her brakes a little tiny bit and she got caught Aunt Vic back, just back of the door, back of her car.  And that throwed Aunt Vic’s car around in a spin and the young girl come right on down to where I was at watching it.

 

Wayne:  Where were you?

 

Milo:  I come from the south.  And see I – – I seen it all.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Well, I knew it was Aunt Vic’s car, and this young girl, she come down to road, and she was unconscious laying over the steering wheel.  And she come down the road, so I pulled off the side the road so that she wouldn’t hit me, then she made kind of a slump over on the wheel and she pulled to the right side and got off the side the road and that’s where her car stopped.  So I opened the door there and a kid come up on a motorcycle and I said, run back down to the store on your bike, motorbike, and get some ice and let’s put on her and see if we can revive her.  So the kid, he went back and got ice and the called the cops and that.  I told them to call the cops.  And he come back with this bag of ice and I was putting ice and that on when policeman came, and she came to by that time.

 

Wayne:  Now, is this the young girl or Vic?

 

Milo:  The young girl.

 

Wayne:  Oh.  Where’s Vic all this time?

 

Milo:  She was up at the intersection about 50 – – oh, a hundred, hundred feet farther up the road.

 

Wayne:  In her car.

 

Milo:  In her car.  But she had spun around and she had went on the east side of the road facing south.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  It spun her completely around.

 

Wayne:  Didn’t tip over.

 

Milo:  Didn’t tip over.  But I seen it.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  Her sister Mary was with her – –

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  – – That day, I talked – – and I did – – I asked Vic what was it like growing up in Plain City as a not only a non Mormon, but as the daughter of one of the ringleaders in the separation.  And she said, oh, made no difference.  She said, I never had any prejudice.  And Mary wouldn’t agree with her.  Mary said they looked down on us.

Did you ever have any sense of being looked down on because you were not a member of the church?

 

Milo:  I don’t think anybody ever looked on any of us.

 

Wayne:  Did you hear Vic or Dale or any – – or Ed – –

 

Milo:  Nobody ever – – nobody ever looked down on the church.

 

Wayne:  Did the church look down on them?

 

Milo:  I don’t think so.

 

Wayne:  Dad was a great friend of Ed’s.

 

Milo:  Every – – they were the closest buddies in the world.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And Joe Singleton.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

Milo:  You dad and Ed Sharp and Joe Singleton was probably the first appraisers and supervisors of the home loan administration or something like that, weren’t they?

 

Wayne:  Dad as a – – worked for the assessor’s office.

 

Milo:  Okay.

 

Wayne:  In Weber County.

 

Milo:  That’s why they got Ed Sharp and Joe Singleton to work with him then.

 

Wayne:  Oh, I guess, yeah.

 

Milo:  But they went around and appraised property and one thin another, when these guys was trying to get home loans for farms and stuff.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Now, when they got the loans and stuff like that, they got them on a loan, real low interest rate.  And then when they settled my grandmother Sharp’s estate and one thing another, my estate money from my mother’s side, us kids being young, they decided instead of giving us kids the money, the one that was taking care of us would get the money and they could put – – apply it on their home loan – –

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  – – To keep their farms because a lot of people was losing their farms because a lot of people was losing their farms at that time.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Mr. England and some of them had lost their farms, you know, and the Maws and some of them, they’d – – that’s when the banks went broke.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  And so when they settled the estate and one thing anther, my share went to Ed Sharp.  And Harold’s share of his when the split it up amongst us kids went to Dal Sharp.  And Fred Hunt took Paul’s share, see?

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  And they applied that to their home loans.  To keep them from losing their farms.  Then after Ed Sharp, these guys die, Vic settled the Sharp Estate on their side, Ed Sharp’s Estate, and Ed Sharp’s girls and boys, they didn’t wanna pay me back the loan that they had taken from me as a youngster.  They said I wasn’t entitled to it because I hadn’t applied for it.  You know, they go back to the legal deal.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, yeah.

 

Milo:  So I says, well. I’m not gonna fight nobody.  But I said,tell you what I’d like you to do.  Why don’t you just pay me four or five percent interest on it all those years.

 

Wayne:  Just give you the interest.

 

Milo:  Yeah, but it was kind of a sore thumb.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I told them I don’t care.

 

Wayne:  It was a loan that you had made without knowing it.

 

Milo:  I – – I didn’t know anything about it.

 

Wayne:  Right.  That’s an odd way of handling that, you know, anyway – –

 

Milo:  Well – –

 

Wayne:  – – If it should have been put in a trust of some sort and the – – so you would be sure to get it.

 

Milo:  I didn’t really want it because I helped my uncle Ed save his farm that raised me, you understand?

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  So I – – I said, oh, he was good enough to give me a home, I don’t care.

 

Wayne:  Just to – p for the tape and to jog my memory, who were Ed’s kids?  I remember liking – – there was Ruby.

 

Milo:  Louise, start with Louise.

 

Wayne:  Okay.  She the oldest.

 

Milo:  Louise.

 

Wayne:  Louise.

 

Milo:  She married Ralph Blanch.

 

Wayne:  Oh, okay.

 

Milo:  Florence, married Nielson.

 

Wayne:  From Taylor?

 

Milo:  West Weber, Taylor.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Leonard Nielson.

 

Wayne:  Did he used to pitch.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, stiff-armed and – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.  And then there was Marjorie, she married Ferrel Clontz, big tall guy, went to Idaho.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Then there was Ethel Sharp.

 

Wayne:  I remember Ethel.

 

Milo:  She married Garth Hunter.  Then there was Ruby Sharp.  She married Norton Salberg.  There was Milo Sharp.  You remember Milo Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Mutt?

Milo:  Mutt Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Okay.

 

Milo:  That’s Milo.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And then there was Dean Sharp – – no, there was Josephine.

 

Wayne:  Josephine.

 

Milo:  Josephine Sharp, she married Darwin Costley, Paul Costley’s brother.

 

Wayne:  uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Then Dean Sharp, the baby.

 

Wayne:  Dean.

 

Milo:  Dean Sharp.  And Louise took care of Dean when Ed’s wife passed away.

 

Wayne:  Oh, who was Ed’s wife.

 

Milo:  She was Lilly East.

 

Wayne: Right, okay.  From Warren.

 

Milo: From Warren.

 

Wayne:  Yeah?

 

Milo: Yeah

 

Wayne: So there were two Milos in your house.

 

Milo:  Both Milo, Milo Ross and Milo Sharp.

 

Wayne: Right.

 

Milo: I was older.  Now, they had another son, Elmer Sharp, that died young with scarlet fever or something, around 12 or 13 years old, but I don’t remember him.  When we were kids at that – – living with Ed Sharp’s at that time, they had diphtheria, they had different things that they used to have this doctor that used to come out, Dr. Brown or somebody, and they’d always give us a shot and medicines and stuff, you know.

 

Wayne: Yeah.  So how – – you were – – you were five when you went to live with Ed?

 

Milo:  I was five when they brought me back down here to live with Ed Sharp, five.

 

Wayne: So those kids were your brothers and sisters in effect.

 

Milo: Not that close.

 

Wayne:  Weren’t you?

 

Milo: Un-unh.  They always – – I don’t know, they – – they felt like Ed Sharp showed me a little more prejudice or something.  When he got his truck, I got to jump in the truck and go with him once in a while to feed the cattle and stuff, do you understand that?

 

Wayne: Uh-huh.

 

Milo: Then had he his truck and he’d – – he’d get the neighbors they’d all get in the truck and go for rides and camp overnight up in the canyons.  And they used to go down to Warren, pick up the Easts and Caulders.  And they used to get in this truck and they’d go up to Pineview Dam, up to the wells – –

 

Wayne: Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  And they’d stay overnight.

 

Wayne: The old artesian wells.

 

Milo: Uh-huh.

 

Wayne: Yeah, before the dam.

 

Milo: And Jack Singleton, do you remember him?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: Now, Ed Sharp, he had a salt mine out at Promontory. And he used to – – he used to run that through the winter and harvest salt.  And I was with Ed Sharp – – you got a couple minutes:  I was with Ed Sharp once when we was coming back with a load of salt from Promontory up on the hill, and there was a place there we always stop and get a drink.  And there was a note there.  And Uncle Ed read it and this Charlie Carter, and old hermit out there, that used to prospect, mine, and one thing another, decided to end his life so he jumped down in the well and killed himself.  So Ed Sharp and I went down the railroad to Promontory, and Uncle Ed had them – – done something on teletype or wherever you call it, code, and they sent a message back to Brigham City to Sheriff Hyde, and he came out and told us to stay there until he came back out.  But they – – they took ropes and everything and lowered lanterns down in this here well.  When they’d get down so far where uncle Ed was down there trying to tie the rope around Charlie Carter, these lamps would go out. No oxygen, I guess – –

 

Wayne: yeah.

 

Milo: So – –

 

Wayne: But body was there, huh?

 

Milo: It was down in there.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: But Uncle Ed Sharp, after he went down in there and tried it a few times, the lights would keep going out, they said, well, we – – there’s no use putting down anymore because they’re gonna go out all the time.  But Charlie Carter, he came out there, the Sheriff, and he had somebody with him. But Ed Sharp, he went down – –

 

Wayne: Not Charlie Carter, he’s the body.  Hyde.

 

Milo: Hyde.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo: But he went down, Ed Sharp went down in the bottom to get Charlie out, Tie a rope on him, get him our if he could.  And we let the ropes down and then when Ed Sharp pulled on the rope or this or that, they could holler down and talk to him.  It was a deep well.  And they tied these ropes together three or four times, lowered him down in there and – – and finally they signaled, and they said, help us pull.  So, I was a little tot, maybe 14, 15. I really don’t remember, but I remember helping pull on this here rope, and they worked a long time to get him up out of the well.  Then when we get him right just up here to the top of the well to get him up of there, we couldn’t get him out over the well.  And somebody jumped up on that wooden platform there and took a hold of him and helped pull him out and over.  And Ed Sharp was underneath him, helped pushed him up out, dead Carter.  They pushed him out on the ground and he just kind of flopped out there on the ground where we were at.  And these – – Hyde and his friend took a hold of Ed Sharp and helped him out of the well, they untied the ropes from around his body because they – – If anything went wrong, we could pull him back up.  And soon as he got out on the ground, he went into a cold shock because he’d been down in that cold water.  And when he – – he started to shake and tremble and just – – he couldn’t control the nerves in his body.  And they made Ed Sharp lay down on the ground and they took his clothes off and they took blankets and gunny sacks and stuff and rubbed him and rubbed him and rubbed him and tried to circulate his blood or something.  I don’t know I’d – – hardly what was the matter.  I remember I was crying.  But remember I was so scared and – – And when he got out, they laid him down like that, I got down and I give him a big love, you know, and I told him, I said, I’m sure glad you’re out of there, you know, I – I was scared and I – –

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – I’m sure glad – –

 

Wayne: How old were you?

 

Milo:  I don’t know.  I must have been about 12, 14, I don’t remember.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But I was just thinking about it, and Mr. Hyde and that guy, they rubbed him and rubbed him and rubbed him.  And they got him so he wasn’t trembling so much.  And then they – – they changed clothes around from one to another so he could have some dry clothes on.  But little things like that in life, you never forget it.

 

Wayne:  No. Lord.

 

Milo:  But see, nobody knows about Ed Sharp going down in the well and sav – –

 

Wayne:  No.

 

Milo:  – – Saving a dead man’s life and give him a burial.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Now he wasn’t a Mormon.

 

Wayne: Well, he was dead.

 

Milo:  He was dead.

 

Wayne:  Didn’t safe his life.  Saved the body.

 

Milo:  Saved the body, but he give him – – he give him life, he give him burial.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  But you see now, he wasn’t Mormon.

 

Wayne:  No.

 

Milo:  But see, he went down in there – –

 

Wayne:  What did Ed – – what did they do with the body.

 

Milo:  Sheriff Hyde, they – – Sheriff Hyde had that – – looked kind of like a square – – like an old square Hudson or something, Graham or something, I don’t remember.  An old square car.  And we had to help them put him on – – put his Charlie Carter on the back seat.  And they rolled him up in canvases, put him on the back seat and took him to Brigham.

Not long ago there was a piece in the paper about Mr. Hyde, they – – somebody wanted to get a little history about Sheriff Hyde, and I was just thinking, well, maybe I should let them people know that – –

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  – – I was – –

 

Wayne:  He was Sheriff up there for a long time.

 

Milo:  And then his boy took over after that, they tell me.

 

Wayne:  Oh, did he?

 

Milo:  They tell me.

 

Wayne:  Maybe that’s why – –  wasn’t it Warren Hyde or – –

 

Milo:  Warren, something like that.

 

Wayne:  Yeah. I didn’t know about Ed’s salt operation.

 

Milo:  That was one of the biggest in the state.

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo:  Yeah. Then they opened that one up down towards Wendover.  And see, they – –

 

Wayne:  Ed did?

 

Milo:  No. Morton Salt or somebody – –

 

Wayne:  Oh, yeah, yeah.

 

Milo:  – – opened up a big one down there.  But we – – in the winter, they used to load boxcars, salt out – – out at promontory.

 

Wayne:  Now, did Ed own this operation.

 

Milo:  Ed Sharp and Ray Sharp.  They took – –

 

Wayne:  Who’s Ray.

 

Milo:  A brother.  Ed Sharp’s brother, Ray Sharp.

 

Wayne:  He never lived in Plain City?

 

Milo:  They lived in Clinton, Sunset.  But they run that salt pond and they – – but they had this salt pond out there and they – – they’d harvest the salt.  They took the horses out there to use the horses to plow the salt loose so they could harvest it.  It used to come in layers after water would evaporate.  They take the horses out there, but the horses hoofs would get coated up with salt so bad the horses got so sore they had to bring the horses back out.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So they rigged up the trucks and tractors and made little tractors and ski-doos to maybe haul maybe a half a ton out at a time – –

 

Wayne:  uh – huh.

 

Milo:  – – without using horses.

 

Wayne:  Did they – – they just sold it in gross weight or did they bag it?

 

Milo:  We bagged a lot of it.

 

Wayne:  Did you?

 

Milo:  100-pound bags.

 

Wayne:  And you worked out there.

 

Milo:  Oh, I had to work out there.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  They had a pond – –

 

Wayne:  Did all the other kids?

 

Milo:  The girls never did.  Let’s see, Eddie Sharp, Milo’s brother, Eddie Sharp, walked from Promontory across the cutoff to West Weber out here to back to Plain City.  He got homesick.  He wouldn’t stay out there.

 

Wayne:  He went over on the Lucin cutoff?

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  How far is that”

 

Milo:  That would be about 75 miles – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: – – Going down to Brigham, down around there.  But he cut across the railroad track this way.  What is it, about 12 miles?  Maybe four – – oh, it’d be 12 miles to Little Mountain – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – Then the cutoff’s be about ten miles.

 

Wayne:  Little Eddie, huh?

 

Milo:  After that – – that’s be Ed Sharp’s young boy.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  But he got homesick and we were working in the salt and Ed Sharp and them guys, see, they was trucking salt over to Brigham and over to Corrine, they was stockpiling it.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  See, they’d truck pile it in, then they’d go get rations and stuff and come back.

 

Wayne:  Did you stay out – –

 

Milo:  We stated out there.

 

Wayne:  – – overnight:

 

Milo:  They had a big cave back in there.  Charlie Carter and them guys had dug their caves.  And the Indians had had caves back in that area, Indian caves and stuff back in there, and lived back in these caves for a long time at Promontory.  Then they had big tents and stuff that they had out in there.  They had the kitchens and stuff out there for the laborers.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  In the wintertime, they had probably ten, 15 guys – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  That’s come out with their trucks.  They all – – they all bought small trucks and – – they weren’t big trucks, you know, they – – young kids get these trucks and they’d come out there and try to make a dollar.

 

Wayne:  And he loaded them all with this scoop shovel.

 

Milo:  Scooped, everything was scooped.

 

Wayne:  uh-huh.

 

Milo:  No tractor.

 

Wayne:  No.

 

Milo:  It was all shovel.  We done a lot of work at nighttime.  Nighttime, lot of wok at nighttime.

 

Wayne:  Why?  Why nighttime?

 

Milo:  Cool.

 

Wayne:  Oh, yeah.  Did that go on the year-round?

 

Milo:  Just in the winter.

 

Wayne:  Just in the winter.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.  Through the winter months.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  The summertime, see, the – – you could fill your ponds up and then keep – keep your ponds full through the summer.

 

Wayne:  That’s when they make the salt?

 

Milo:  That’s when the evaporation (unintelligible) to salt there.

 

Wayne:  So the winter’s the harvest.

 

Milo:  The harvest.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But in Promontory, when they put that track across to Promontory, they went across and left a part of the lake with salt and everything in it, deep salt, and Ed Sharp and them harvested a lot of that slat right in there.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  And one time we was there and it was – – they had this pond of salt and they piled it up to dry, make it white.  And the pelicans used to come around.  They used to feed them.  And they put the dynamite in to blast this salt, and uncle Ed Sharp says, oh, he says, there’s the pelicans.  Shoo them away, shoo them away.  And they all flew away but one.  And he says oh, John, he says, I gotta get you out of there.  He ways, gonna blow you up.  So Ed Sharp he run back to where the dynamite was and he grabbed this pelican.  And he grabbed the pelican and he run, I don’t know how far, not very far when this blast went off, the salt blowing it up.  But the – – he fell, fell down on the salt and the bird went away.  The birds couldn’t fly because they had salt on their wings.  So they’d take these pelicans up and they’d wash them so the pelicans could fly again.  But he saved that pelican’s life. But he could have got killed himself.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, I’ll say.

 

Milo:  But I – I’ve often thought about Ed Sharp doing things like that.  But he raised me to be a good – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – Boy.

 

Wayne:  Dad used to love to talk to Ed.  We’d sometimes leave here, Grandpa’s place, headed for Warren.  But we’d sometimes end up at a – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  – – Ed’s and I would set there on the hay rack waiting for those two people to stop talking.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  They really, genuinely liked each other, I think.

 

Milo:  But see, Ed Sharp, he – – he rented ground off of Bill Freestone down in Warren.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  Where Milton Brown lives, there used to be a house out in the back.

 

Wayne:  Oh, okay.

 

Milo:  And Bill Freestone lived out in the back of there and Ed – –

 

Wayne:  I remember that.

 

Milo: – – Ed Sharp – – see, I was a kid, we used to go down there and he planted – –

 

Wayne:  Just across the creek from uncle Earl – –

 

Milo:  – – Potatoes and stuff.

 

Wayne:  – – Hadley’s.

 

Milo:  Yeah, down by uncle – – now, where your uncle Earl Hadley and his wife lives, me and Howard Hunt seen that twister that come through the country and tore down the creamery.  The old pea vinery.

 

Wayne:  Down on the salt flat or on the – – in the pasture.

 

Milo:  Yeah. Me and Howard Hunt seen that cyclone pick that building up.  We was in Howard’s dad’s car.  We seen that twister come through the country.  And we was kind of watching it, riding through the dirt roads, and we rode over here by the dump road going down to Hadley’s, and that picked that building right up and it twisted it around tight up in the are and twisted it around and then it just set it down and then it crumbled.

 

Wayne:  I remember that.

 

Milo:  And it went right – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And it went right down, this twister went down across the road and then it come back towards your uncle Earl Hadley’s and it come – – missed his house.  But it went – – his barn was kind of front and north of the house, and it went right through there and it picked up part of that barn on the west side, it picked that sloping part up.  Mr. Hadley and his wife had just come in to have dinner, and they put the horses in there with the harness, hames and that all on – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – And that picked that shed up and set it back down on them horses.  And me and Howard run in there to help Mr. Hadley, we pried that up.  Mr. Hadley reached in and talking to them horses and his wife, Liz, I think is her name – –

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  – – But each one of them talked to them horses so they didn’t jump around.  And me and Howard helped pry that roof up, and he took them horses right our of there.  And them horses – – I often thought about that.  If nobody was around, see, the horses would have probably died.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  And you were down there working on Ed – –

 

Milo:  No – –

 

Wayne:  (Unintelligible)

 

Milo:  Me and Howard was in the car.  He’d borrowed his dad’s car.  We was – – we had the water our there by uncle Ed Sharp’s, and Howard said, come and ride down to the store with me.  So we go down to buy the ham – – the baloney to make a sandwich.

 

Wayne:  Just down to Olsen’s or Maw’s?

 

Milo:  Maw’s Store.

 

Wayne: uh-hu.

 

Milo: And we seen that twister coming.

 

Wayne:  Oh, you – – oh.

 

Milo:  You could hear it.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  You could hear it.  And we was startled.  We was dumb.  We wanted to drive in it.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, you bet.

 

Milo:  If we’d a drove in it, see, it’d a probably picked us up.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  That’s how you got such a good view of it though.  You were chasing – – out there chasing it.

 

Milo:  Well, we was watching it.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But we got to see the creamery – – the vinery go down.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And we got to see the barn pick up, the lean-to on the west side and then we seen it set – –

 

Wayne:  That’s right.

 

Milo:  We could see the horses.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And then it set that right back down.  And them horses, I guess the rafters and that probably wedged just so that it didn’t kill them, you know.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Then you see, right after – – right after that, see, we had to go into the war.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  World War Two.

 

Wayne:  I wanna cut back.  Taking much more time – – of your time that I meant to.  But can you tell me briefly what you know about how Howard got killed in the war?

 

Milo:  Howard – – Howard Hunt, they tell me, got killed by our own ammunition.

 

Wayne:  They were in Italy?

 

Milo:  In Italy.

 

Wayne:  And he was with the Gibson kid and Arnold Rose?

 

Milo:  Also Folkman.  I think Folkman was in the – –

 

Wayne:  Oh, I thought he was in Navy.

 

Milo:  I don’t know.

 

Wayne:  Leon?

 

Milo:  They were all close together at that time.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Whether they was on the move or what, I don’t know.  But Archie Hunt could tell you.

 

Wayne:  Probably – – Archie’s Vic’s son.

 

Milo:  Yeah, grandson.

 

Wayne:  Grandson.

 

Milo:  But he could tell you.

 

Wayne:  Gee, I maybe oughta go see him.  Who did he marry?

 

Milo:  He’s remarried Ez Hadley’s wife.  Now, you know Harold Hunt?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Harold Hunt might be able to tell you about Howard.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, I’m not gonna be able to see Howard.  I’m going home tomorrow.

 

Milo:  Are you?  I can run you down to Archie Hunt’s.  But see I went into the war.  Howard went into the war.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Out of all of us guys from Plain City that went in on the first draft, they sent us down to Fort Douglas, Utah.

 

Wayne:  When did you go in?

 

Milo and Gladys Ross, 30 May 1942

 

Milo: In what was it, ’41?  Took us all in town the first draft.

 

Wayne:  Howard went with you?

 

Milo:  No.  No, they come in later.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  But the first draft, they sent us all out, we went out of the Bamberger tracks.

 

Wayne:  Who was with you, remember?

 

Milo:  Ellis Lund.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

(l-r): Kenneth Barrow, Ellis or Keith Lund, Milo Ross, Jim Jardine, Unknown, Victor Wayment, Earl Collins 16 Oct 1942

 

Milo:  Yeah, Ellis Lund and – – now I’ve lost it.  But we all went down to Fort Douglas.  We got down to Fort Douglas.  They examined us, shoot us, and everything else like that.  Put us in barracks.  And they called my name our after they examined and tested us on everything, they called my name out to come up the office.  I go up to the office.  I was supposed to go get my duffel bag, be ready to move out so – – so many minutes.  I run back to the barracks, got my bags and everything, and come back up where I was at.  They put me in a jeep with four, five other guys.  They took us right down to the railroad station in Salt Lake.  They shipped us out to Fort Lewis, Washington, the same day, night we got down to Fort Douglas, they shipped us to Fort Lewis, Washington.  And I was the only one out of the whole group that was sent out.  And the rest of them guys all stayed here a week or two down here to Fort Douglas, Utah and they sent me up to Fort Lewis.

 

Wayne:  You were just at Douglas long enough to get a – –

 

Milo:  Examination.

 

Wayne:  – – Uniform and – –

 

Milo:  Yeah, they hurried me right through.

 

Wayne:  Why?

 

Milo:  I don’t know whether they had a call they wanted so many to go on this troop, Illinois outfit, National Guard outfit coming through, I don’t know.

 

Wayne:   What, so you did basic training at Fort Lewis?

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  That’s where Norm and Paul – –

 

Milo:  They came there, yeah.

 

Wayne:  uh-huh.  For the 41st division.

 

Milo:  Yeah.  But they come up a little later.

 

Wayne:  If we’re on your war career, we might as well stay with it, then we can cut back.  What else did you do in the war besides go in early and – –

 

Milo:  Well – –

 

Wayne:  – – Get hijacked in Salt Lake?

 

Milo:  Well, here’s the deal.  What I was gonna tell you about.  They asked us these questions about putting these pins together.  If you open a window, how many panes would you have if you opened – – as a window over there, if you open that there window over there halfway, how many panes would you have?  You understand it?  Like a sliding window?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  If you opened that there window, how many panes would you have if you opened it halfway?  How would the four – – would you have it if you opened it halfway?  You understand it?

 

Wayne:  Has that army general intelligence (unintelligible)

 

Milo:  Intelligence stuff.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And I didn’t care.  I was mad.  You understand it?  I – – I really didn’t care anything about that.  And they – – they says, do you like to shoot a gun?  And I says I’m – – I’m an expert rifleman.  And maybe that there’s why they throwed me out, you know?  They didn’t like me down there.

 

Wayne:  This is at Fort Douglas?

 

Milo:  Fort Douglas.  And they put me on a train and I went from here right on the – – tight up to Fort Douglas, Utah, and done all my basic training there.

 

Wayne:  Fort Lewis, Washington.

 

Milo:  Fort Lewis, Washington.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  And I spent my time there, and then after we done our time at Fort Lewis, we went down to Needles, California, Barstow, and opened up a big army training camp down there.  We dug great big latrines and trenches and they brought wooden boxes in for toilets and stuff like that.

 

Wayne:  What kind of outfit were you in?

 

Milo:  That was with the 33rd division.

 

Wayne:  In an infantry – –

 

Milo:  National Guard.  Illinois National Guard.

 

Wayne:  Oh, okay.

 

Milo:  33rd, Golden Cross.

 

Wayne:  Okay.  Is that you?

 

Milo:  Yeah.  I’m a highly-decorated soldier.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, you are.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Well, tell – – let’s stay with that.

 

Milo:  But.

 

Wayne:  tell me about your war.

 

Milo:  We was – –

 

Gladys:  Before he leaves, I’d like you to show him the plaques that you made (unintelligible).

 

Milo:  Okay.

 

Gladys:  (Unintelligible)

 

Milo:  Okay.  He can hear you.  At Fort Douglas, Utah, they had an air base there also.  They had the B-51’s and P-38’s and they were training the pilots and everybody.  And we were training there.  And they put me in the infantry.  And I done a lot of – – lot of latrine duty.  We was in barracks.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Fort Douglas – – Fort Lewis.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And didn’t matter what I done, the company commander, whoever it was, he liked me.  If we go out on maneuvers, rifle shooting, anything like that, they liked me because I could hit the targets.  They could pull a target up and I could shoot it.

 

Wayne:  Like Plain City kids, you’d grown up – –

 

Milo:  I done it.

 

Wayne:  Sure.

 

Milo:  If we run infiltration course or anything, get down on your guts and crawl.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Go under the barbed wire and this and that – –

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  – – I done it.  And they liked me.   And they – – they come along with the 60- millimeter mortar.  Told me all about that, an one thing another.  And they said, do you know how far that is down to that tree down there?  And I says, yeah, I say, it’s probably about 150 yards.  And didn’t matter what they done, they’d fire this mortar, 150 yards, they’d be on their target.  You know, I wasn’t doing it.  But they was asking me these things.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: And they’d say, how far away is that tree over there.  I’d say, well, it’s close to a thousand yards.  But I was good on – –

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  – – Distance.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  And it didn’t matter what I done.  And as soon I was there, I was the soldier of the month the first month.

 

Wayne:  Wow.

 

Milo:  I got a pass out of it, you know, and then they made me a private first class and then a corporal and then a buck sergeant, you know.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Then when I got down to Barstow, they made me a Tech Sergeant.  Give me a weapons platoon.  And that was your 30 machine guns and your 60-millimeter mortars, see?  But they give me a platoon down there.  And then when they give me the platoon, they put us on guard duty one night.  And they took me way out in the desert and left me.  Now, you’re gonna stay here until certain hours and then you’ll be relieved.  Well, I was gone through the night.  The next morning at about noon, here they come to get me.  And they said, well, why didn’t you walk in?  I said, walk in?  Why walk in?  I was told to stay here.  Was you scared?  I had an order.  I done it.  I get back to camp, they give me a five-day pass for being a soldier of the month down there.  You see?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So they give me a platoon sergeant.  They made me a two-striper.  One stripe under at that time.

 

Wayne:  Oh, a staff – –

 

Milo:  Yeah, a staff sergeant.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo: Then.  And then they made us a two star later on.  Two stripe after.

 

Wayne:  And that’s the tech.

 

Milo:  Tech, yeah. After that.  But they was changing at that time.  But they give me a five-day pass.  And I come back to Utah.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: They give me a five-day pass, but I could only have three because we were shipping out.  So I hurried home see my wife, Gladys.  She’d come back from Washington so she could be with me just that – – say hello.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo: And I come home to see my wife and I had to go right back the next morning so I’d be able to ship out.

 

Wayne:  You went back to Barstow?

 

Milo:  Barstow.

 

Wayne:  Your outfit was – –

 

Milo:  Barstow.

 

Wayne:  – – Still there.

 

Milo:  We was ready to ship out.  But I’d received this five-day pass that had – – soldier of the month award.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So that’s why I got to come home and to go back.  So then they – –

 

Wayne:  When had you got married?

 

Milo: Well, we got married in ’41.  See, then – –

 

Wayne:  Just before you went in?

 

Milo:  Just before we went in.  And see, I never seen my boy, Milo, he was born while I was overseas.  I didn’t see Milo until he was three years old.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.  Who did you marry?

 

Milo:  Gladys Donaldson.

 

Wayne:  From Ogden?

 

Milo:  Ogden, yeah.  Dave Donaldson’s daughter.  Dave Donaldson.  They lived on – well, Norm, he used to go up there.  They used to pick Gladys up.  And Frank Hadley, they used to go pick Gladys and their sisters all up.  They used to go up there.  But they – – they shipped us out of Barstow and they was gonna send us – – they was gonna send us in to Alaska.  They give us all this here heavy equipment and everything, go to Alaska. Then when we get on the ships, the first thing the do is give us new clothing and everything, and we’re going to the southwest pacific.  So we went into the Hawaiian Islands.  So that’s where – – where we started out at, Hawaiian Islands.

 

Wayne: Right.

 

Milo:  Then we went from Hawaiian Islands down through – – down Past Kanton Island, Christmas Island, Fiji Islands.  We was gonna go into Australia, then they decided instead of going into Australia, they had kept the Japs from going into Australia, so they sent us back up into the Coral Sea, back up into New Guinea.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: And so we went up into Finch and Lae and Hollandia.  And while we were in there, we unloaded ships and stuff for the ship guys and everything like that.  And then while we were in there, I got the soldier of the month award because I got the guys to help dig trenches to get water down out of the – – the fields so that it wasn’t swampy all the way through.  And we dug these trenches and they gave me soldiers of the month down there.

We went down to the ocean front in these trucks and we brought coral rock and gravel stuff and made us sidewalks and stuff in our camps.  And then the next thing you know, the whole outfits’s done it.  And then we put poles and that up and so we didn’t have to have tents, we put a canvas over the top, more like a roof, so everybody done that.

 

Wayne:  And this was in New Guinea.

 

Milo:  In New Guinea.  But you see, we went down to Finch Haven, down to Lae, then over to Hollandia, see, and helped unload ships.  Then over – – when we was unloading ships, we – – I was in charge of unloading the ships.  We unloaded at nighttime so the Navy could sleep and then get their rest, we worked through the nights for them.  And we was unloading different things, and one of the guys down below, one of the buck sergeants, I heard him say, hey, this casket here, I put old Sergeant Ross’s name on it, he says make sure this son of a bitch gets it.  You see, you could hear them talking.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And I knew who it was.  So when we got through off the ship, we have about 50 guys I was in charge of, and another shift come on to relieve us, we go on for four hours, so when we go to load up, I says, say, Sergeant so and so, you gotta come over here a minute, I got a detail for you.  Yes, Sergeant Ross.  I said, bring three buddies with you.  So he brought three buddies over with him.  And I says, I got a detail for you.  I says, you ride back down to camp with us.  I says, it’s only a mile and a half.  But I says, I heard you guys talking down – – down in the ship down there, and I says, I got this casket with my name on it and I wanna be sure and keep it.  I want you to carry this back to my tent.  Maybe I’ll sleep in it a night or two.  And he says, oh, Sergeant Ross, I didn’t mean that.  You know, but he was mad, you know, he’s irritated to think that the Sergeant would have to go down there and work.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But little things like this happens.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But we unloaded tires, 50-gallon drums of oil, gas, out in trucks and they took it out into the bamboos, you know, out in the – – out in the mud swamps.

 

Wayne:  What port were you at?

 

Milo:  Finch Haven.

 

Wayne:  Finschhafen.  Now Port Moresby’s on the other side.

 

Milo:  That’s on the upper – – back down farther.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But when you go up into Coral Sea, you go up kind of towards Borneo, the Big Island.  Now, Borneo from where we were at, Finschhafen, you could see Borneo Volcano eruption 24 hours a day.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  Borneo.  And then after we – – after we stayed in there, they said there was no Japs in there.  But me and Palke, my friend, army buddy, we was down to the ocean and this native guy come and asked us if we’d shoot two Japs.  That these two Japs had taken these native girls prisoners.  And we thought he was just kidding we says, yeah we will.  So we go with this native.  They call them fuzzy tops, New Guinea.  We go back, back over here where he’s at and he’s pointing to us.  He says, right here, right here.  See, this native.  And I says, well, thems Japanese.  They’re not supposed to be any Japs here.  And he says, two of them.  I says, Palke, you take the left one, I’ll take the right one.  So we shot them.  You understand me?

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: And then we got – – we got a Japanese flag apiece.  My buddy Palke and my – – myself – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And Then – –

 

Wayne:  They had captured two native girls?

 

Milo:  Yeah.  They were shacking up with the native girls, these Japs.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And this here native fuzzy top, he didn’t want these Japanese there.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So he asked us to shoot them.

 

Wayne:  You just sneaked up on them in their – –

 

Milo:  Well, we – – we thought he was kidding us.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So I says to Palke, I says, you take the left one, I’ll take the right one.  And we never did tell nobody.  You understand me?  We didn’t dare.  We was scared.  We was chicken.  We was afraid we’d get in prison.  You understand it?

 

Wayne:  uh-huh.

 

Milo:  But see – –

 

Wayne:  You probably broke an article of war.

 

Milo:  We broke an article of war – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – Because we didn’t talk to the commander in the first place.

 

Wayne:  Right.  And it was not a combat situation.

 

Milo:  We were in combat.

 

Wayne: Were you?

 

Milo:  We were loaded with ammunition at all times ready to fire you see, the Japs come across with their airplanes and strafe us and bomb us and they said – – they said the planes and that wasn’t in there, but – –

 

Wayne:  It’s a combat zone.

 

Milo:  It’s a combat zone.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo: But we – –  wherever we went, we had to have a gun and two of us had to be together.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  You understand?  At all times.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  If we went down to the ships to unload everything like that, we ha a patrol, guard duty.  You had five men, guard duty besides you’re unloading guys stuff like that.  But see, after we left Finschhafen, Lae, we went to Dutch East Indies, Morotai, and that used to be a Leper Colony, British Colony.  Used it be a Leper Colony.  And we went to Morotai, Dutch East Indies, and we had big airstrip there we had to guard.

 

Wayne:  All this time you were in the 33rd – –

 

Milo:  33rd Division.

 

Wayne:  – – Division National Guard from Illinois.

Milo:  Illinois.  130th Infantry. But everything that I’ve done, I got the solder of the month award.  I even got a soldier of the month award for fixing up the drain ditches and fixing the gravel sidewalks and stuff like that.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And then the Latrines and stuff, we fixed them back farther away.  Then I took the drums and we took – – cut the drums in half and put them by our tents to save the water that came off the tents.

 

Wayne:  Oh, the oil drums.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: We saved all these drums and stuff.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And we got our own water to wash our clothes and stuff with.  And I got a soldier of the month award for that, and I had a chance to go to Australia for five-day pass, but what can you do?  You don’t have no money.  You – – no way to go.  I could have went down with the Australian boy to fly down and back – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But, you know, I didn’t go.

 

Wayne:  You weren’t getting paid?

 

Milo:  Army?

 

Wayne: Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Oh, yeah, they paid.

 

Wayne:  Fifty-two – – well, you were – – you were a staff sergeant.

 

Milo:  But we send money home.  We was taking out insurance and sending most of it home.  We was maybe getting $20 a month, you know, not much.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  But we went from – – from New Guinea we went up into Dutch East Indies, Morotai, and we guarded the airstrip.  And the Australian boys, when the would take off the with their airplanes, they would always do a barrel roll.  They’d roll their plane over and – – plane over and – – and we had this guard duty to guard this airstrip.  And then when the Japs started to giving the airstrip a bad time, we had to make a drive back up through the airstrip and up through the country in towards – – I don’t remember the town now.  Morotai.  But we made a drive back up through there to locate the Japanese and get them our of there.  And they killed quite a few of the Japanese did, the leading forces.  We always brought up the rear, the weapons platoon.  But we always had to be on the guard duty.

 

And then when we got back in farther, they had more Japanese farther back up into Morotai in Village, so they put us in ducks and took is out in the water in the lake, in the ocean, and put us in P.T. Boats.  And there was I think about 12 of us.  We had a lieutenant Early that went with us.  And I volunteered to go as a weapon platoon tech Sergeant.  They put us in there p.t. boats and they too us up to this city – –

 

Wayne:  There were 12 of you in the – –

 

Milo:  About 12 of us.  About 12 of us, if I remember right that volunteered to go up.

 

Wayne:  In one p.t. boat?

 

Milo:  No.  They had the two p.t. boats.

 

Wayne:  Two.

 

Milo: They brought the two p.t. boat in.

(Tape I-B ends.  Tape II-A Begins.)

 

Wayne:  . . . two side one of a conversation with Milo Ross at his home in Plain City.

 

Milo: Number three.

 

Wayne:  What?

 

Milo:  One, two, three.

 

Wayne:  One, two – – third side.

 

Milo: third side.

 

Wayne: Tape two.

 

Milo: Yeah.  But they took us up in these p.t. boats out of the ducks, then we get out, starting out towards to where we was supposed to go, up to the city, this kid, he pushes a handle down on that p.t. boat and that thing just sat back on its tail, you know, and we – – we though it was gonna tip over backwards.  You know I mean?

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  Because we’d never been in a p.t. boat.  And he rammed us right up in on the beach.  And we got up in there and we – – we make a beach landing, war-type landing for the Japs, we go in there Bayonets and rifle ready to go, and nobody was there.  We run through the – – around the buildings.  Run down through the streets like we was trained to do.  Run our – – right on down along the side the beach, clear down where the boats and everything was at.  And when we got down where the – – they’d tied their boats and all that all up, there was a great big open well, and it was lined with rock and everything, beautiful, beautiful picture.  If you ever seen anything in the – – a picture of a open well water, and that’s where they got their drinking water out of, out of buckets and ropes.  And then no Japs, no people around at all.  So one the follow – –

 

Wayne:  This is – – this is a native village then.

 

Milo:  Native village on Morotai.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: Dutch East Indies.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: They have Gilden money, Gilden and different type.  But one of the fellows hollered and says, come quick.  O the five or six of us that was looking at this water and well and stuff broke and run to where he was at with our rifles, we figured he had some Japs pinned down.  But he got to the bank.  So we go over to the bank and they had a great big standing vault.  And he says, look it here, all the money in the world.  So without thinking, we took our ammunition, we put armor-piercing ammunition in our clips.  And we cut a hole in this vault to take the money out.  You understand me?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  Was it Japanese money?

 

Milo:  It was New Guinea – – not New Guinea, but – –

 

Wayne:  Dutch?

 

Milo: Dutch East Indies.

 

Wayne:  Paper money.

 

Milo:  Paper money.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So we – – we loaded this all up in our coats and, you know, your fatigues and stuff like that, we loaded ourselves all up.  And the lieutenant Early, he says, well, I gotta have some, too.  See, he’s – – he’s in charge.  And I’m the platoon sergeant.  We even put it in our pants down to our leggings, we had these leggings on.  So we – – we robbed the bank.  But we did accomplish our mission, no Japs, nobody around.  We go back and get into the p.t. boats, go back down, he kicks us off into these ducks.  And then the ducks take us back and puts us on the beach down there on Morotai.  And as soon as we get down there, we’re under arrest.  They strip us off completely.  Nude.  We’re ready to be court martialed.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And here’s Lieutenant Early stripped off just like we are.  Somebody had went down the ground from the bank, down to where we come back in at.  It probably wasn’t very far.  They came back down and told them that we’d robbed the bank.  So when Lieutenant told them what it was, we give them the money and everything like that, they was all satisfied and contented.  Lieutenant Early kind of shut it up some way.  I don’t know how they done it.  But we was – – were under army arrest.  Then they tell us, go ahead and get dressed back up in uniform.  No charges will be pressed.  You’ve returned the money.  So they release us.

And about that time, another ship, barge, came in, and it was artillery guys coming in to observe for artillery.  Sergeant Ross, go with them.  Set up.  Yes, sir.  I tell the guys, must have been about six of them, I said, just head straight out through here, and I said we’ll go out about 40, 50 yards and stop.  Then I says, we’ll call in one shell and find out how close you are with us.  So they called in the one shell.

 

Wayne: What are they gonna fire on if there were no Japanese?

 

Milo: Well, we have to have artillery wherever we go.  For our own protection.  They know there’s Japs in Morotai.

 

Wayne: But you didn’t find any.

 

Milo: We didn’t find them, but we wanted artillery.

 

Wayne: You wanted (unintelligible).

 

Milo: Around us.

 

Wayne: Okay.

 

Milo: And they have a shell that they throw in there that’s a smoked shell.

 

Wayne: Right, you’re just spotting target.

 

Milo: Just spot – – spot target.

 

Wayne: Yeah, okay.

 

Milo: And they – – the one – – the observation man says, I’m gonna run over here to the side and he says, I’ll – – I’ll be right back.  I gotta go to the bathroom a minute.  So he left us and he just started to walking maybe 20, 25 feet, and boom.  We thought the artillery shell had come in and got us.  But where – – we looked back to see where it was at, and there was booby trap that this observer had booby trapped, and it had jumped up out of the ground and it had exploded just about his waist height.  And it looked like it blew him all to hell.  We ran over there to see if we could help him, and his hands and his legs – – the one leg was almost completely off, you know, and his hands was just strung out, you know, you could see the bones and all that in there.  And he – – he was conscious, and he says, oh, what did I do wrong?  And then he passed out.  And then we hollered for the medics and the medics come up, and they decided they’d have to finish amputating his leg because the – – these cords and everything was bothering, hindering, and everything, so they bandaged him all up and tourniqueted him up and fixed him all up.  And while we were there, I says, listen, you better get that shell in here on us pretty soon now because, I says, the Japs will know we’re here.  So the observation guy from the artillery guy, he called in for this shell and they brought one in and it was close enough to us to where we are at, we knew where it was at, and I says, don’t bring it in any closer, that’s fine.

But all the time we’re talking on the radio back to the company commander, our company commander Kelly, and told him what had happened.  With probably booby traps all the way around, watch your area back there, too, because there is booby traps.  So the artillery guys, they back out, we go back down to where the company’s dug in, and they call in for two or three shells, artillery shells.  They fired way back from the distance off another island back to you, and you can hear them old guns go boom, boom.  Then pretty soon you can hear them coming in, shoo, shoo, shoo.  And then they boom, you know.  And I flag them off and say, that’s enough, that’s – – that’s right where we need it so we know we got some protection and the Japs’ll know we got some protection.  And I told the company commander on the radio, I says, we’re zeroed in, sir, right about where we need to be.  Good go, sergeant Ross, he says, have the men dig in for the night.

So we stay in this here area for two or three days, then we go back down to Morotai, the airport.  And we’re still down there until after Christmas.  Christmans eve, they used to have a wash machine Charlie bomber come across, Jap bomber, he’d drop bombs on Morotai.  And then after he got so far across and about so high up, they’d turn these search lights on him.  They had these great big search lights.  They’d turn about six, six to 12 of them if they had all fired up ready to light, and they’d turn these lights up on there and then when the lights would get on the Jap plane, then our planes would be able to spot the bomber and then the P.51’s and 38’s, P.38’s would shoot them down.  But that was in the best side in the world if I ever seen in my life was to see a Jap bomber shot down in Morotai.  To see – – to see the light on him, to see him explode, and then see a flash, the black – – black explosion then a flash, then hear the motors revving up and going down into the ocean.  Then you see your airplanes do their tip of their wings and everybody turns their lights off, follows this airline right on down to the ocean, you know.  But it was quite a thrill, something different for us to be able to see how the air corps and everybody worked as a unit.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  And we stayed – –

 

Wayne:  What Christmas would this be?

 

Milo:  Oh – –

 

Wayne:  ’42, ’43?

Milo: Let’s see, ’43, ’44.

 

Wayne:  ’44.

 

Milo:  ’44.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: Then we went from – – they told us – – they told us we’d be loading out – – we stayed there and guarded the airstrip (Pause in tape.  Unintelligible) we killed all them Japs up the side there.  Those Japanese let us go through them in that cocoon grass.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: They let that first group go right on past them, about the first squad.  And after we got about the first squad past, we always have a signal, we stop.  We talk to them on the radio.  You have your walkie-talkie and you have everybody stop.  And when you stop, one faces one way and one faces the opposite way.  Back to back.  Combat.  And one of the fellows radioed on and he says, I just seen movement in the grass.  Japanese to our left front.

The orders were hang by, on signal, everybody fire to our left, mover forward.  So when the signal come, every – – everybody starts to shooting and they stand up and they go, walk through the cocoon grass.  But they took the Japanese by surprise right on the ground.  We never lost a man at Morotai.  Them riflemen, them riflemen really protected us, I’ll tell that you.  They – – they just done a good job.  But the Japanese let them go right through.  But if us guys in the back hadn’t seen it, them guys would have been cut off.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  From Morotai we went – – they was gonna take us up into different islands and they kept us on the ships for quite a while.  We’d go from one island to another to make landings, and they’d hold us out.  And then after so many days, they told us they told us we would be going up to – – into Luzon.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So then they went up into Luzon, and Harold’s Bunch, 32nd, and probably Norm’s bunch from the 41st and that bunch that Norm and Paul Knight’s and them, they went down into Manila.

 

Wayne:  I’m not sure – –

 

Milo:  Down by Clark Air Base, Subic Bay, they probably come in down there.  But we went up above and come back in Lingayen Gulf where MacArthur came back in.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And they sent us back up in Lingayen Gulf as guard duty, so when MacArthur comes back in on his, I shall return – –

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – That, that is the 33rd division where he comes back in there, if you know the history of it.  That is your golden cross assignment, the return of MacArthur, right in there.  That’s where MacArthur comes back in the 33rd division.

 

Wayne: Did you have to fight your way in there?

 

Milo: Never. Not there.  We could hear the Japs’ artillery fire coming back out of the hills out of Baguio City down into the valleys.  But see, Harold and them guys, they come through clear down into Subic Bay, down in Manila, and they worked their way back up through the island.  And Milo Sharp and them guys, they went back to Kibachiwan, the prison camp.  Milo Sharp, his bunch went over to Kibachiwan and relieved all the prisoners of war over in that area.

 

Wayne: Oh.  You know what outfit Mutt was in?

 

Milo: I don’t remember.  But Harold was with the 32nd division.  And Harold and them went over to Galiano Valley, wasn’t it?

 

Wayne: I don’t know.

 

Milo: Galiano Vallley.  They went – – they went past Kibachiwan, the concentration camp, and they went back into Kibachiwan and we went over into Baguio City.  So we were all close together.  And I – – that’s – – that’s when I – – I met Harold down in Luzon.

 

Wayne:  Oh, did you?

 

Milo:  Up in – – but up in Lingayen Gulf.  He come up through there.  And I was in charge of distributing the trucks and stuff as they come off the ships, and I was in charge of having them relay the companies, to companies into certain areas and – – but I seen Harold and these guys come through, his buddy.

 

Wayne: Was that just by chance?

 

Milo:  By chance.

 

Wayne:  No kidding?

 

Milo: But he knew we was coming in.

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo:  See, he had a radio.  And on the radio you communicate with each other.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh

 

Milo: And he picked up our code and he was so many miles away and they came through the field.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Instead of going around the road, they come through the field to us.  And I throwed my glasses up and I says to Lieutenant Early, I says, there’s a couple soldiers coming down through there and they’re not Japs, you know.  And I was bringing these trucks in, keeping them going where they was supposed to go, and hollering the different guys where to put them.  And pretty soon, these two soldiers got up close enough and I throw my glasses on there and I thought, hell, hell, oh mighty. And then I say to Lieutenant Early, I says, what’s going on here?  He says, aw, don’t pay no attention to them, they’re all right.  So pretty soon, Harold and them guys, they got, oh, probably here to the road, and I heard Harold say, God, big brother, don’t you even know me?  See, he had his glasses.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And he’d come down to a dentist probably.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: And see, I was just coming in off the ships, but – –

 

Wayne:  So he had an idea you were in the area.

 

Milo:  Well, we have radios.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  See, they knew, they knew we were coming in there.

 

Wayne: Did you ever run into any other guys from Plain City.

 

Milo: I didn’t know – – Raymond Bitton from West Weber.  He married Beth Skeen.

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo: Now, he was in the 33rd division also.

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo:  He got a bronze star, yeah.  And see, we went – – we – – after we left Luzon, they sent us up into Aringay.  We stayed at Aringay and prepared to drop to – –

 

Wayne: Milo, I gotta use your – –

 

(Pause in tape)

 

Milo:  They sent us from Luzon after – – after MacArthur and them came in, they relieved us out of there as guard duty and they sent us over into Aringay.  They sent us over into Aringay to go through the homes and villages through there, house by house, and searching for the Japanese.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo: Outside of Aringay.  And outside of Aringay, we trained to go from one house to another, and we had to take – – go in in twos.  One of you walk into a house.  These are only one – or two-room building shacks.  One would go one way and one go the other way, and you had your rifle and bayonet and go right on in, ready to pull trigger any time.  And that was the hardest thing in the world for me is to go in a house ready to shoot in case you see a Japanese or somebody in there.  And it was pretty hard, but we – – we searched these villages, we searched the houses, we searched the outside and everything around Aringay.

And then around Aringay, we dug in.  And after we’d dug in for one day, the Japanese threw artillery shells in on us, and one of the shells exploded down by the – – a trail, being and it left something burning.  And the fellows went down to see what it was, and it was money.  The had hit a cache of money that the Japanese had buried, and the paper money and that had caught on fire and the silver coins and that was scattered all over.  And I’ve got clippings on that where they found over half a million dollars in coin the Japanese had buried.

But in this artillery barrage that they throwed around us, they throwed the 90’s artillery and whatever it was in on us.  And that was on February the 14th in the morning about 8:00 or 9:00 o’clock, February the 14th.  That’s when the one shell knocked me down and about four other guys got – –

 

Wayne:  This is 1945?

 

Milo:  ’45.

 

Wayne:  yeah.

 

Milo:  knocked us down, and – – February the 14th.  And then I realized I was down on the ground and wanted to get up to help, and then my one leg, I couldn’t get it up.  I was paralyzed in the one leg.  I’d been wounded.  So I go get up, and I go crawl over to help my buddy because he was bleeding on the side quite a bit on his neck.  And I put this compress on there as tight as I could, and told him to hold it.  And I says, I’ll have to help Fred, my buddy Palke over here – – not Palke, but one of the other fellows, said to come and help him.  I crawled over to help him and I thought, well, I’m stand up.  And when I went to stand up again, then another shell come in and hit us again.  So I got hit once, and then I got hit again, see.  So I got hit from the front and I got hit from the back (unintelligible) over that side.

 

Wayne:  Where was the second hit?

 

Milo:  From the back side on the artillery, see, caught me in the back.

 

Wayne:  In the back.

 

Milo:  It was shrapnel, but they – – I think they knocked about 11 of us down.  And Palke, he come running over, that’s my buddy here, and I says, Palke, I says, get my pictures of my wife and Gladys and my wallet out of my pack over there, will you?  I’d just come back off of guard duty through the night.  I went out on a suicide post, and I’d just come back.  And I hadn’t had any sleep, and I got wounded as I come, and I was just having a sip of drink with the guys, and I says, you guys, I says, we better split this up.  I says, we’re gonna get artillery up here, too.  And I no sooner said it than these two shells come in about the same time and got us.

But they shipped me down to 144 station hospital, and I was down there for about a month.  And I said, I gotta get out of here.  So I volunteered to go back to the company.  And then when we got back in the company, they sent us out – – out to San Fernando Valley where the Japanese were out over in that concentration there.  We was supposed to make a road block in that area to keep them there.  And we waded the Aringay river through the night.  And that’s after we’d been wounded.  I come back to camp that day, I come back to camp about 3:00 o’clock, and they was preparing to go out.  And I was just coming out of the hospital.  And they says, what are you gonna do, Sergeant Ross?  And I says, well, I’ll go with you.  Oh, why don’t you stay with the company?  And I said, no, I’ll go with you.  So I went and got my ammunition and everything, full pack and everything, and went with them.  We waded the Aringay river about 3:00 o’clock in the morning just below the bridge because they knew it was dynamited.  Japs was gonna blow it up.  We waded the Aringay river and went over into San Fernando Valley and waited until daybreak there to go back up into – – up towards Baguio City where we done most of our fighting.  But we done a lot of – –

 

Milo J Ross

 

Wayne:  So a day after you come out of the hospital, you’re engaged in a fire fight with – –

 

Milo:  Well, the day I come back out, I was loading up my pack that night to go with my company back into combat.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And I was kind of chicken when I waded that river.  I had a little fear in me.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  The wounds were – – didn’t – –

 

Milo:  Just shrapnel wounds.

 

Wayne: didn’t break any bone; they were flesh?

 

Milo: Flesh wounds.

 

Wayne: Didn’t shatter any bones or – –

 

Milo:  Just – – just poke holes through you – –

 

Wayne:  uh-huh.

 

Milo: – – you know, just – –

 

Wayne:  yeah.

 

Milo:  – – poke, poke holes through your body, you know.  And my legs was the same way.  But I – – they wasn’t gonna release me out of the 144 station hospital, and I said, I’ve gotta get out of here, I’m gonna go nuts.  But I went back in and the next, that – – the same night I got out, we waded the Aringay River.  We went right over to San Fernando Valley and then we worked our way back up on the ridges, back up through there, and starred to crawling down, down ridges, trying to wipe the Japanese out.

Then we got – – We got – – we had to take Hill X.  And Bilbil Mountain.  My Company got the Presidential Unit Citation.  But I got – – I got the Purple Heart, the Silver Star, and the Good Conduct Medal, and the Presidential Unit Citation.

 

Wayne:  You know, I had no idea you’d got a Silver Star.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  That’s – – that’s impressive, Milo.

 

Milo: I got the Presidential Unit Citation with the company.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  We had about a 40 – – they tried to take Hill X.  About seven or eight times before, and then they called upon Company C to take it.  We tried to take that, we got fired on and pinned down.  And we had to dig in for the night.  We lost quite a few men. And then we stayed and worked our way up the ridge, but we got up on top and on Hill X, we made our mission.  We dug in, we built pill boxes and stayed in.  We stayed there for seven, seven or eight days.  And they dropped ammunition and stuff from the airplanes, the C-47, they dropped ammunition and stuff our to us.  And then they had Filipino people bring rations and stuff up on their heads.

 

Wayne:  The Japanese are above you on the hill?

 

Milo:  They was on the – –

 

Wayne:  Dug in?

 

Milo:  – – Hill X.  And also on Bilbil Mountain.  And that’s where we was getting most of our fire from is Bilbil Mountain.  And Hill X, we had to work our way up that.  And when we got to our point up here, we dug in, then we built pill boxes with a roof over them.  We’d put logs and stuff over them.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  And then the night when they was gonna release us, they told us that high officials would be up.  Make room in the foxholes for them after dark.  So all the colonels and majors and everybody come up to see what they’re gonna do, so they get in our foxholes with and bunkers with us, and they stay through the night with us, and then the next morning they see what they gotta do, and decide they’re gonna relieve, take us off of this hill, Hill X.  So they relieve us off of Hill X. And they bring another company up to take our position.  And we go on back, back out of here, back down to rest area.  And when we get down to rest area, they feed us and let us drink and have clean up.  And about dark, they told us that we’d be combat ready again, with no sleep, after supper we would go back up on Bilbil Mountain where the other company was pinned down.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: After we ate, loaded up, went back toward Bilbil Mountain, we had to walk back up where they let us off.  Through the night, we walked up on top towards Bilbil Mountain, made contact with the company that was pinned down.  On radio, you’re always on radio, you understand me?

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo: And they have their patrol back and forth.  We make patrol with them right on back up to where their company’s at, pinned down.  And they tell us that in morning we would – – all bayonets would be fixed bayonets. Ready to fire and move forward.  If anybody goes down, you move on past them, you do not stop, you move right through the company that’s pinned down, our own troops.   And the rifleman at daybreak – – you could see movement of the Japanese.   And you could see our troops down in the foxholes where we had to go down through.   And as soon as they give the signal, our troops went right on down through the first platoon, second platoon, third platoon, and I was the last platoon, fourth platoon.   We seen what was going on.  Our first squad of men that went down,  that – – all that firing was from the hip.  They – – they went through there.  You know, they caught the Japanese by surprise.   They took them right in their foxholes, right through the other company.  The other company was told stay in their foxholes.

 

Wayne: (Unintelligible )

 

Milo:  They had to stay down, let us through them.  And C Company went right through them.  And when we come through,  there was not a soldier of our company that got wounded.   We went right through the company that was pinned down and right off of Bilbil Mountain,  right on across the ridge, went right down to hill X,that we had been on the day before.

 

Wayne:  Good grief.

 

Milo:  And went right on down.

 

Wayne :  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Back down to camp.  I never did know what the company got for that.  I’ve – – you know, I – – I come back out of the service right after that because we was up in Luzon fighting on them hills and stuff like that.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  But I – – I did have a chance to stand and – – with Captain Kelly when we received his – –

 

Wayne:  He was your company commander?

 

Milo:  Company commander.  He got his Silver Star.   I got one.

 

Wayne:  And you got one.

 

Milo:  And I got to stand down with him on the platform they fixed for us.  P.W. Clarkston, sixth corps commander, pinned that Silver Star on me star.  He says, sergeant Ross, come and go to – – with us in Japan, and he says, I’ll give you a platoon – – a company of your own.  I’ll make you a lieutenant.  I says, sir, let me go home.  I got enough points.  65 points.

 

Wayne:  Is the war over by now?

 

Milo:  It’s just about over.   I says, the Japs are whipped, they’re coming in.  I says they’re coming in.  I says, I took a prisoner of war, and I says, 25, 30 others, I had them come up the next morning and I says, they’re coming in, they’re coming in.

And he says, Sergeant Ross, we need more just like you.  I says, please let me go home.

But I had the chance to stand on a platform with Captain Kelly and have a division pass by in review.

 

Wayne:  Wow.

 

Milo:  You know, that’s quite an honor.

 

Wayne:  Right

 

Milo:  Each company come by, and you hear then holler, Company C, eyes right.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Right on down through,  you know  – –

 

Wayne:  Not many tech sergeants get that privilege.

 

Milo:  That’s really a privilege.

 

Wayne :  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I was honored.   I felt proud.   I am a huge-decorated soldier.

 

Wayne:  Can I look at those pictures?

 

Milo:  You bet.

 

(Pause in tape)

 

Milo:  Sorry I took so much of your time.

 

(Pause in tape)

 

Milo:  Some people’s got them, but I’ve never got them.

 

Wayne:  I’m gonna ask Milo to run over these decorations again on the tape.  I had it off.  So we’re standing in front of a framed kind of collage of photographs and medals from his war – – there’s  the – – you have the Good Conduct Medal.

 

Milo:  Good Conduct Medal.

 

Wayne:  The Silver Star.

 

Milo:  Silver Star for gallantry in action.

 

Wayne:  Right.  And now that’s just the step below the – –

 

Milo:  Medal of Honor.

 

Wayne:  The Medal of Honor.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  Right. And the Purple Heart.

 

Milo:  Purple Heart.

 

Wayne:  And the good – –

 

Milo:  World War II.

 

Wayne:  World War II.   Okay.  And then there’s a ribbon for a Presidential Unit Citation.   And the – –

 

Milo:  Combat Infantry.

 

Wayne:  Combat Infantry badge.

 

Milo:  The picture of P.W. Clarkston, sixth corps commander.

 

Wayne:  And up there’s his hash marks for – –

 

Milo:  Service points.

 

Wayne:  Right.  Is that – – I’ve forgotten  – –

 

Milo:  I don’t remember.

 

Wayne:  Six months.

 

Milo:  Yes.  That’s the old golden cross, 3rd division,  and that’s our  – – that’s our battle stars.

 

Wayne:  Two battle stars.

 

Milo:  See the one over here in the southwest pacific.

 

Wayne :  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Down into New Guinea.   Morotai.   And then the Philippine Islands over here.

 

Wayne:  The two battle stars are for the Philippines.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  And the one to the left of the cross is the New Guinea.

 

Milo:  New Guinea.

 

Wayne:  Right.  What is this?

 

Milo: That’s the expert.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  I’m an expert in everything that I used.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I have citations, written citations, I have M-1 rifles, carbine, hand grenades.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I have certificates of everything.  I have a plaque made up that I’ll show you in my bedroom.  I’ll bring out and show you.  But it’s P.W. Clarkston pinning the silver star on me.  That’s captain Kelly standing by me.  And after he pinned these on me, we had the division, 33rd division pass by in review.

 

Wayne:  Yeah J.

 

Milo:  Honored me and Captain Kelly.

 

Wayne:  And that was essentially the end of your army career?

 

Milo:  I wanted to get out at that time.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  While you were still whole.

 

Milo:  I’ll show you the plaque.

 

(Pause in tape)

 

Milo:  His name’s Milo Paul Ross.  And he’s an Eagle Scout.  And he has a son here named Paul after his – –

 

Wayne:   Oh.

 

Milo: – – After his dad.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  Is that his Eagle Scout?

 

Milo:  He’s an Eagle Scout.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  And he’s  – – he’s a high-decorated Eagle Scout also Milo’s and Eagle Scout and his son’s an Eagle Scout.

 

Wayne:  Where does Milo live?

 

Milo:  Paul, Idaho.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  Paul, Idaho.  He – – this here bit here received a – – an award out of Minico.  This school in Rupert give almost a million dollars scholarship out in high school graduation,  and my grandson, Paul Ross – –

 

Wayne:  Paul Ross.

 

Milo:  – – right here received from there clear on down to there.

 

Wayne:  Well.

 

Milo:  About $52,000 scholarships,  that the young buck, Paul Ross, received.

 

Wayne:  To USU

 

Milo:  Yeah, up to Logan.

 

Wayne:  Right. What did he do?

 

Milo: He’s in drafting, engineering,  and computers.  But you can – – can you read them here?  That’s a presidential.

 

Wayne:  Presidential.

 

Milo:  $24,000.

 

Wayne:  For $24,828.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  USU Drafting and Music.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  $1,500.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  USU Academic honors, $250.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  James Dixon Honorary,  $1,000.   Harry S. Truman Library Institute,  $2,000.  Colorado School of Mines Achievement,  $6,000.  Freshman, $2,000.  Performing arts,  $800.  John and Doris Jensen, $750.  Conoco, $1,000.  Delano F. Scott, $1,500.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  That’s quite a list.

 

Milo:  Well – –

 

Wayne:  Now, is this when he graduated from high school?

 

Milo:  From high school.

 

Wayne:  Then he gets these for the college or – –

 

Milo:  yeah he’s going up to Logan.  He has a scholarship here now to go to Logan, tuition paid.   But he has to pay $3,000 for his board and room I think up there.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  But other than that  – –

 

Wayne:  Is he up there now?

 

Milo:  He’s going this fall.

 

Wayne:  He’ll be a freshman?

 

Milo:  (unintelligible )

 

Wayne:  Oh, this has just happened then?

 

Milo:  Just happened.

 

Wayne:  Oh, yeah, this is June 4th.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  1997.

 

Milo:  He’s a brilliant boy.

 

Wayne:  Minidoka  County.

 

Milo:  Yeah, he’s been – –

 

Wayne:  Rupert, Idaho.

 

Milo:  He’s been back to Kansas City twice.  He went back later year on a scholarship fund.  This year he went back to Kansas City with his dad.  They spent ten days going back, come back again, and he placed 16th last year and he placed 16th this year national.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Scholarships.  He got to go back to Harry S. Truman scholarship school back there that they have for scholarships.  And he placed 16th each time.  And that’s Milo’s boy.  Now, he wants – – what he wants to do now,  when he’s going to Logan, if Logan will let him go this fall when he’s a in school to California on a scholarship for Stanford,  I think it is – –

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  – – If they’ll let him go to Stanford on a scholarship, oh, like a scholarship deal, he wants to go down there if Logan will let him go long enough out of college to go down there to – – on that time limit for that scholarship down there.  He’s gonna try to get it.  I don’t know whether he’ll been able to get it or not.

 

Wayne:  Huh.

 

Milo:  But he picked up about $52,000 scholarships.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  Where did your son, Milo, go to school.

 

Milo:  He went to Plain City.  See, he had his schooling here.

 

Wayne:  But he – – did he go to college?

 

Milo:  He didn’t go to college.

 

Wayne:  He went to Weber High?

 

Milo:  See, I bought him that ’59 Chevrolet Impala convertible, that red one.  Do you remember him driving that around?   I bought him that – –

 

Wayne :  No, I haven’t been around.

 

Milo:  I bought him a ’59 Impala convertible to keep him in school.   And then I tried to get him to go on a mission.  He wouldn’t go on a mission.  And I says, son, here’s $5,000, I’ll give it to you now, or I’ll put it in the bank in your checking account if you’ll go to – – go on a mission.   He says, dad, I’m old enough to know where I wanna go.  So he just went to work for Circle A Trucking outfit,  and he’s been with them ever since.  He’s  the – – he’s their supervisor up at Paul, Idaho, for the big trucking outfit up there.  That’s one of the biggest outfits there is in the states is Circle A Trucking.

I’ve got a plaque here that I’ve just kind of put a little junk together.

 

Wayne:  Oh, boy.

 

Milo:  And it really isn’t put together very nice.   But come over here.

 

Wayne:  Now Milo’s showing me a mock-up he’s  got of some material on a kind if a – –

 

Milo:  Clipping.

 

Wayne:  – – two-part clipboard here.  There’s his Chevron.

 

Milo:  I even got a – – I got a clipping of Plain City School play night, see.

 

Wayne:  Oh, my heavens.

 

Milo:  Here’s – – here’s your sister, Ruth, in here.

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: She was my leading girl.

 

Wayne: Right, I remember that play.

 

Milo: She was – – she was my girlfriend.   And you know what?  I tease her.  I always say, when I was supposed to kiss you, you always used to put a handkerchief up so our lips never touched.  She gets a kick out of that.  But that was in the school.

 

Wayne: Yeah

 

Milo:  Can you read what day that was?  I don’t remember.

 

Wayne:  Plain City Junior High School  – –

 

Milo:  ‘36

 

Wayne:  – – Will present “The Girl who Forgot” in the ward recreation hall tonight.  That is something the 3rd, 1936.

 

Milo:  1936, Yeah.  But I kept that.

 

Wayne:  Rex McEntire.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  Keith Hodson.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  Ray Charlton.

 

Milo:  Yeah.  Van Elliott Heninger, he’s in there.

 

Wayne:  Ray Richard  – – Ray – – Ray Richardson.

 

Milo:  Charlton.

 

Wayne:  Oh, Ray Charlton.

 

Milo:  Ray Charlton.

 

Wayne:  Middle row Dorothy Richardson.

 

Milo:  Dorothy Richardson.

 

Wayne:  Right.  June Wayment.

 

Milo:  June Wayment.

 

Wayne:  Larne Thompson.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  Margarite Maw.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  Ruth Carver.  Back row, principal  J.M. Rhees.  Eugene Maw.  Director,  Van Elliott Heninger.   He was our baseball coach.

 

Milo:  Right.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Milo Ross

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  And teacher, Ernst Rauzi.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Who taught us shop, didn’t he?

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Oh, that’s something.

 

Milo:  Isn’t that?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I – – I had some of these pictures made up and give the kids all some.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  Then this here one picture here that – –

 

Wayne:  Plain City Clubbers Show ability.

 

Milo:  That’s baseball.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I don’t remember what year that was either.   That probably won’t even tell you.

 

Wayne:  No.  Are you in there?

 

Milo:  Yes, sir. Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, there’s Elmer.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  That Freddy?

 

Milo:  Yeah, that’s old Fred.

 

Wayne:  Glen.

 

Milo:  Glen.

 

Wayne:  Norm.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  My brother.

 

Milo:  Frankie Skeen.

 

Wayne:  Oh, is it?  Yeah.  Claire Folkman.

 

Milo:  Claire Folkman.  Dick – –

 

Wayne:  Dick Skeen, Albert Sharp – –

 

Milo:  Albert Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Abe Maw.

 

Milo:  Yeah.   Milo Ross.

 

Wayne:  Is that you?

 

Milo:  Yeah, that’s Milo.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Hang onto that there.

 

(Telephone rings.)

 

Wayne:  And on the front row there is Frankie Skeen, Walt Moyes, Arnold Taylor, Lynn Stewart,  (unintelligible).

 

Yeah, the rest of this caption reads, Plain City’s Hustling Ball Club has many of the bleacherites at the 1938 Utah Farm Bureau Baseball Championship picking it to walk off with the slate – – the state title.  Before the joust closes.  Yeah,  we recognize the Al Warden prose there.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.   I don’t think they won it.  I don’t think we ever won that.  Played those games up at Brigham City, didn’t we?

 

Milo:  We got placed second.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  Denver and Rio Grand got first.

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo:  Yeah.   And thus is a picture here of – –

 

Wayne:  Oh, of Luzon.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Now, here’s one of New Guinea.   Picture of New Guinea.  Here’s a picture  – –

 

Wayne:  Now, I can’t pick you out there.  Where are you?

 

Milo:  Well, I won’t be in that picture.

 

Wayne: Oh you’re taking the picture.

 

Milo:  I’m taking the picture.   Here’s my brother,  Harold Ross, and Milo Ross.  We got a little write-up against  – –

 

Wayne:  For heaven’s sake.  You was all so lean.  Yeah.  You did.

 

Milo:  Then I got a picture here of me in the hospital, 44 station hospital.   And that’s McFarland, Delmar White, and Milo Ross and Lyman Skeen.

 

Wayne:  This was all in the Pacific – – or in the Philippines?

 

Milo:  Yeah.  That’s the Philippine Islands right there. 144 Station Hospital.

 

Wayne:  Were they all – – were they in the hospital?

 

Milo:  They came to see me.

 

Wayne:  Oh,  they came to see you.

 

Milo:  They – – they –  on these radios, you have communication back and forth.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  In the war.   And here’s our Japanese flag we took.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  I that have there.  Here’s  – – I have a Silver Star, a citation.   Here’s Captain Kelly and Milo Ross here.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

2004

 

Milo:  Here’s Presidential Unit Citation.   I – –

 

Wayne:  Company  C., 18th infantry regiment – –

 

Milo:  one hundred thirty  – –

 

Wayne:  – – of the 33rd – –

 

Milo: Division.

 

Wayne:  – – Division.

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne: Okay.

 

Milo:  This here’s  the 33rd division.   Here’s the copy of it, that over there.  Now, I have a – – oh, here’s a picture where we were at in New Guinea and different places like this.  But everything that I  – – the ships and that I was on, I kept a record of everything that I rode on.

 

Wayne:  Well, yeah.

 

Milo:  Can you see it?

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  I even have the dates and everything that I kept them on.  I kept – – I kept it in my helmet so it wouldn’t get destroyed.   Isn’t that amazing?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But I got more time on the shop than a lot of Navy boys have got.  And then I got the battles that you was in here, see?  Different places here.   Here’s the 33rd division strikes gold, see, recovers a half million dollars plot – –

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  – – Uncovered.

 

Wayne:  This is a – –

 

Milo:  That’s what – –

 

Wayne:  – – Newspaper, your division newspaper.

 

Milo:  Yeah.  See I was telling you about this one here.  But see, I have the certificates, the mortars, and machine guns, and everything.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  These are all nice.  But I – – I kind of kept a record of all of it.  These here are little clippings like these here.  Sergeant Ross leads an attack and all that, you know, and – –

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  I have them all together.

 

Wayne:  Is it – – what paper is this from?

 

Milo:  That’s standard.

 

Wayne:  Oh, Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  But I got a – – I got lot of copies of it.  I’m trying to put a bunch of them together.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I was wondering if I could find that one down to – – here’s Morotai right here.   That was September the 16th, ’42.  I told you ’44.

 

Wayne:  Was when you were in Morotai?

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.  Let’s see, let’s see what I wrote on here.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  This is ’44, in December 1944 in Morotai, that – – I was right when I told you before.

 

Wayne: Oh,  this is from the time  – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  – – this was when you went in the service.

 

Milo:  Right.

 

Wayne:  September 16, 1942.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  And you were discharged September 30th, 1945.

 

Discharge Certificate

 

Milo: Right.

 

Wayne: Almost three full years.

 

Milo:  Three years.  And then December ’44, see, we was in a battle down in Dutch East Indies,  Morotai, our first combat,  see, out here.  That’s Christmas Eve,  see, right here?   Under combat fire, February the 14th.  First enemy fire in Rosario, Luzon.   The last of February,  202.  See, we was on a lot of hills.

 

Wayne:  Hill 18 – –

 

Milo:  – – Yeah.

 

Wayne:  – – 02.

 

Milo:  1802, near Rosario.  Near Arringay, Luzon.  And then middle of March, Ballang City.  Last of March through April, May, Hill X, with seven unsuccessful attempts,  they had tried taking that hill before us – –

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  – – the army, our army, they asked company C., our company , to take it, after what did I say, seven?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  So they tried to take that hill seven times.  We went up and we took it ourselves with the company.   We had a high casualty rate, about 44 percent if I remember, it’s on one of these here clippings here that says it.  This Presidential Unit Citation probably tells me.  And we was on Hill X.  And then we went back up on top.

 

Wayne:  But you took Hill X.  By going up – –

 

Milo:  Walking right up after them.

 

Wayne:  Well, I thought  – – weren’t you brought down from Hill X.  Then you regrouped and came up where the artillery – –

 

Milo:  We go up to Hill X first.  We take Hill X and hold it and dug in.  And then after we dug in, they took us out, back to camp area, they take us back up over here and come up on Bilbil Mountain.

 

Wayne:  Okay.   I had.

 

Milo:  Right next to it.

 

Wayne: Okay.   You – – so you took Hill X.  Before Bilbil Island.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Okay.

 

Milo:  I’ll give you some clippings, if you’ll give me your name and address, I’ll send you copies of them.

 

Wayne:  I will. I’ll be glad to have them.

 

Milo:  Look, here’s the Presidential Unit Citation.  They’re just clipped on kind of easy.  These are cute.  This is my wife here.  Here’s one right here.  His platoon received the mission to protect from the left flank along this – – also to push forward and capture a section of the hill.

 

(Tape II-A.  Ends.  Tape II-B begins.)

Wayne:  His platoon received the mission of protecting the left Flank of the company’s assaults, and was also to push forward and capture a section of the hill.  The Japs’ positions were peppered with heavy barrages of artillery and mortar fire before the attack.  The unit started the attack with Sergeant Ross leading his platoon.  After reaching half of the – – just half the distance, the infantrymen were stopped by Japan fire consisting of knee mortars, rifles, and machine guns.  During rest of the day, the two groups slugged back and forth at each other with their arms.  During the night, the Japs launched an attack against the 130th perimeter, but were driven off.  Sergeant Ross’s machine guns and mortars played an important role in stopping the enemies attack.  The following date the Doughboys slowly started – –

 

Milo:  To gain.

 

Wayne:  Oh,  to gain yards until by late afternoon they had pushed to the top and captured the positions, killing a large number of Japs.  Sergeant Ross’s platoon captured it’s objective before any other of the other units were able to secure theirs.  Sergeant Ross has been in the services for nearly three years – –

 

Milo:  Two.

 

Wayne:  – – Two of which have been spent in the Pacific area.  Prior to participating in the Philippines liberation campaign, he battled the Japs in Netherland East Indies in the second battle of – –

 

Milo: Morotai.

 

Wayne:  – – Morotai.   Who wrote this?

 

Milo:  These come from – #

 

Wayne:  You don’t know what that’s from?

 

Milo:  I don’t know, but I’ll give you a copy.

 

Wayne:  That apparently is a news account.

 

Milo:  Yeah.  Here’s a Presidential Unit Citation.  Can you read this one right here?  Do you wanna read that?

 

Wayne:  I would like it on the tape, yeah.

 

Milo:  Okay.

 

Wayne:  Is that the same as this?

 

Milo:  Same as that.  Turn it over by your light there.

 

Wayne:  Huh?

 

Milo:  Turn it over by your light.  Maybe you see it better, can you?

 

Wayne:  Unit Citation,  5 July, 1945, Headquarters 33rd Infantry Division,  A.P.O. 33, General Orders Number 159.  Under the provisions of Section 4, Circular Number 333, War Department, 22 December, 1943, the following unit is cited by the Commanding General of the 33rd infantry division: Company C., 130th Infantry Regiment, is cited for outstanding performance of duty in armed conflict with the enemy.  Bilbil Mountain of Province Luzon – –

 

Milo:  Come in.

 

Wayne:  – – Philippine Islands  – –

 

Milo:  Come in.

 

Wayne:  – – An extremely rugged forest covered – -, key defensive positions was occupied by a company of Japs reinforced with heavy machine guns, section – – 90-millimeter mortar section and two sections, two guns of 75-millimeter howitzers.  This commanding ground afforded excellent observation and enable the enemy to maneuver it’s forces and supporting- – weapons to advantageous positions,  to successfully – – to success – -I can’t read – –

 

Milo:  To seize.

 

Wayne:  To success – –

 

Milo:  Oh – –

 

Wayne:  To success – –

 

Milo:  Important – -oh, two previous unsuccessful – –

 

Wayne:  To successfully repel seven previous attempts – –

 

Milo:  They’d been tried taking it seven times before.

 

Wayne:  All right.   To seize Hill X.

 

Milo:  But we took it in the first time up.

 

Wayne:  The strategically important know on the southeastern slope of Bilbil Mountain.   Hill X.  Was honeycombed with prepared positions from which the enemy observed and harassed our movements along the Galiano-Baguio road.  That’s B-a-g-u-i-o.

 

Milo:  Baguio.

 

Wayne:  Baguio,  the Galiano – Baguio – –

 

Milo:  Galiano.

 

Wayne:  Galiano-Baguio road.

 

Milo:  Baguio road.

 

Wayne:  On Ap- – on 12 April 1945, company C. Under the sweltering sun laboriously climbed steep mountain trail which followed the crest of an extremely narrow hogback ridge, which except for shot – –

 

Milo:  Cogon Grass.

 

Wayne: – -Cogon Grass and sparse bamboo growth was devoid of cover, and pushed to within 400 yards of the crest of Hill X.  When they were met by heavy barrage of 90-mortimer – -millimeter mortar fire which enveloped the entire ridge.  From the simultaneously intense enemy machine gun and rifle fire emanating from the many camouflaged spiders holes and caves astride the trail,  evac- – inflicted many casualties forcing the company to dig in.  A reconnaissance revealed no other route to the objective, so the company evacuated it’s casualties and aggressively pressed against this seemingly impenetrable fortress throughout the day making the enemy – –

 

Milo:  Disclose.

 

Wayne:  – – Disclose its strong points.   On 13 April 1945, despite the fact that the constant watchfulness against the night infiltration  – –

 

Milo:  You lost a line – –

 

Wayne:  No, I skipped a line, didn’t I?

Milo:  On April first – –

 

Wayne:  It’s my glasses.  On 13 April 1945, despite the fact that the men weary from the strenuous climb, the fierce fighting and constant watchfulness against night infiltration, the company launched a dawn attack.  Undaunted by the intense fire which inflicted five casualties to the leading elements, the gallant fighting men of company C. Imbued with an indomitable fighting spirit swiftly worked their way up, up – – way up the knife – like ridge,  and in the fiercest kind of close-in fighting wiped out six Jap machine gun nests in succession, killing the defending Japs in their hole.  The enemy fanatically contested with intense fire every foot of the way to the summit, but undismayed,  company C. Seized Hill X. And dug in tenaciously holding on despite continuous harassing fire delivered from the dominating positions on the Bilbil Mountain.

That night the Japs counter-attacked another company sent to assist in the attack on Bilbil Mountain, on 14 April 1945, succeeded in reaching the summit only to be driven off by the fierce Jap counter-attack.  The full fury and power of the Japs was again turned on company C.  Which alone held its, position, successfully repulsion gallery the severe and determined counter-attacks.  The tired fighting men of company C.  Exhibiting unwavering fighting spirit despite nearly 50 percent casualties, tenaciously held Hill X.  For five days until reinforcements were available to continue the attack and annihilate the enemy.

 

Milo:  That’s right,  but I’ll give you a copy of these.

 

Wayne: Yeah, that would be great.

 

Milo:  I’ll fix you up something.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, they’re kind of hard to take off the tape and – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  – – Get accurate.

 

Milo:  But I’ll  – – I’ll give you a copy of it.

 

Wayne:  Hi.

 

A Voice:  Hello, how are you?

 

Milo:  This is Dick Skeen’s boy.

 

A Voice:  (unintelligible)

Wayne:  How did you do?

 

A Voice:  Cody (Unintelligible)

 

Wayne: Cody – –

 

A Voice: (unintelligible)

 

Wayne:  Across the street?

 

A Voice:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Trying to do an audio on visual stuff.  We should have a video.

 

Milo:  They told about the Philippine Islands people would give you a ribbon, liberation ribbon.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  So I wrote to the Philippine people, that I really appreciated them, one thing and another, see.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  Then I thought, well, I’ll just tell something about the people.  So I told about the people carrying the water and the stuff up on their heads and that.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And I said, I don’t know whether the Army’s ever told you this or not, but I wanna thank you personally.  I never had guts enough to get out of my foxhole, do you understand it?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  To help you carry that stuff up the hill.  But the women and the men and the girls that carried the ammunition and water up to us, I’d like at this time to thank you people from the Philippine Islands for helping us while we were in the war to save your country.

 

Wayne:  That was mighty – – mighty thoughtful of you Milo.

 

Milo:  Well, I wrote a letter and I sent it to the Philippine people and I kept this copy.

 

Wayne:  Right, did you get any response?

 

Milo:  Not yet.  You don’t get much back.

 

Wayne:  Probably not.  I’m sure it was delivered.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: Now, is there anything else?  But I will, while you’re still on your tape, I will give you a copy of my Presidential Unit Citation.  I’ll give you a picture of myself.

 

Wayne: Right.  And if you’re gonna make, you know, I could go into Kinko’s and get copies made in a hurry.

 

Milo:  Well – –

 

Wayne:  If you wanted to trust me with any of this stuff.

 

Milo:  I’d  – –

 

Wayne:  But you – –

 

Milo:  Let me get them all together for you.

 

Wayne:  – – Maybe rather have them – – I’d like a copy of that, if you wouldn’t mind my having one.

 

Milo:  Well, it’s not too good a writing.

 

Wayne:  Well, wasn’t gonna grade it.

 

Milo:  Well, professor  – –

 

Wayne: It’s not a theme.  But there’s nor many soldiers that wrote letters like that – –

 

Milo:  See I – –

 

Wayne:  – – 40 years after the fact.

 

Milo:  But the idea of it is, the idea of it is, see, I did write to the people.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  And thank them for it.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  And I – – I – –  where  is Gladys?  But I did  write to the Filipino people, look, I wrote this here April 7, 1994.  Can you see it?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Dear Philippine people and the government,  do you understand it?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: Thanks for not forgetting and out the war, do you understand that?

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Then I put down Milo Ross and my number and everything like that.  Filipino.  But it’s your country, not my country.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  Have you ever been back?

 

Milo:  No.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, that’s a very, very thoughtful letter, indeed.

 

Milo:  Well, I wanted to write to the people.

 

Wayne:  That’s – –

 

Milo:  That’s my little Milo.  This is Mr with the horses.   You remember that?

 

Wayne:  This is the guy I knew.

 

Milo:  That’s many years ago, Wayne.

 

Wayne:  You haven’t got one of you in your baseball uniform?

 

Milo:  Yes, sir, that’s the only one down here.

 

Wayne: I was probably the score keeper for that team.

 

Milo:  You was the scorekeeper – –

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: – – Wayne, you was the scorekeeper.  They called you the bat boy.

 

Wayne:  Right.  In English.

 

Milo:  English.

 

Wayne:  I called Ted Christensen and I said I – – it’s a long time ago, and he said, I remember you, English.

 

Milo:  But I – –

 

Wayne: – – I’ll never live it down.

 

Milo:  If you will get – – give me your name and address and that and I – – I will get you – – I’ll put you a bunch of stuff together.

 

Wayne:  Good, I’d like that.  Yeah.  Are you gonna have to stop for dinner?

 

Milo:  Beg pardon?

 

Wayne:  Are you gonna have to stop for dinner?

 

Milo:  No.  You just tell me what you wanna do and I’ll – –

 

Wayne: Okay,.  Well, I’d like to cut back from Army.  You came home in – – from the Army in – –

 

Milo:  ’45.

 

Wayne:  In ’45. In what, July – – what did it say?

 

Milo:  I came home in September.

 

Wayne: September of ’45?

 

Milo:  Yeah, August.

 

Wayne:  Right.  Let’s go back a little bit to – – we’ll have to be a little  – –

 

Milo:  He’s on time because he’s gotta fly out.

 

(Conversation in background.)

 

Milo:  Here, you go here.  Do you want that (unintelligible)

 

Wayne:  Well, it might be a little better.

 

Milo:  Why don’t you sit over here?

 

A Voice:  Nice to meet you.

 

Wayne:  Nice to meet you

 

A Voice:  See you later. (Unintelligible)

 

Milo: Wayne and them used to live where the homes and that’s in here.

 

A Voice:  Over here?

 

Milo:  Carver.

 

Wayne: We lived in the house where Lorin – –

 

A Voice:  Oh,  okay .

 

Wayne:  – –  And Carolyn lived.  That’s the old – –

 

Milo:  He’s a professor back in Minnesota.

 

Wayne:  Minnesota.

 

Milo:  He’s taking, putting a little stuff together.

 

Wayne:  I’m interviewing all the old people.

 

A Voice:  All the old people, huh?  Well, this guy sure is interesting, so I’m sure – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah, he is.

 

A Voice:  – – (unintelligible) lot of information.

 

Wayne:  Fascinating, yeah.

 

A Voice:  Well, I’ll let you go.

 

Milo:  Gladys, it’s 6:00 o’clock.  Are you gonna feed Judy?

 

Gladys:  She’s been fed (unintelligible).

 

Milo:  Okay.  We got a little bit more.

 

Gladys:  Did you get my dishes done?

 

Milo:  Did you get them dishes done, she says?  Did you want (unintelligible)

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: I’m gonna tell you – – can you hear me now?

 

Wayne:  I can hear you.  I’ll stop in a minute to see if we’re – –

 

Milo:  See if you pick it up.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Then I’ll wanna tell you you two things more.

 

Wayne:  Okay.

 

Milo:  Tell me when you’re ready.

 

Wayne:  Go ahead.

 

Milo:  I wrote to the Philippine people in ’94 and thanked them for the help that they give us on Hill X.  The time we were there, we could not leave.  You understand me?

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  We were pinned down.  And when you’re pinned down, the only place you go is crawling.  And these natives would bring that water, ammunition up to us, get to a certain place, they’d drop it off and run back.  I never seen an Army man jump up to help any of them bring it up, you understand me?

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  I didn’t either.  But maybe we all should have went and helped them, I don’t know.

 

Wayne:  You’d have got shot.

 

Milo:  You understand what I’m trying to say?

 

Wayne:  Sure.

 

Milo:   But I thought, wonder if anybody ever thanked those people for doing it for us.  Because we couldn’t have stood there.  We wouldn’t have – – we wouldn’t have stayed there.  So I wrote that letter to them and thanked those people, to let the people know that their help to carry that ammunition up.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Sunday we was up to church services up to the Dee Hospital.  I’ve been going up there for six years.  I go up there and I help them pass the Sacrament, bless people, or anything like that in the hospital that wants to be blessed or have Sacrament or anything like that for six years.  This two Sundays ago a Japanese girl came from Tokyo.  Sister Sparrow introduced her to me.  And while I was sitting there, I got thinking, I wonder if that young girl would be a relative of – – to the soldier, Japanese, that I took prisoner of war outside of Baguio.  So it all run through my mind and finally I think, oh, gee, I’ll write a little letter to her.  I made an appointment to meet them next Sunday at the hospital,  so they came back next Sunday to the hospital, and I wrote this here little letter there and I told her, I says, you don’t know me, I don’t know you, but I said, during the war, outside of Baguio City, I give a Japanese a soldier to live his life.  I took him a prisoner of war.  I did not get his name, didn’t get his address, didn’t do anything like that.  But I said, I took him prisoner of war late in the afternoon, dark, and I says, I told him to tell his buddies to come up the next morning out of the cave.  There’s 25 or 30 more of them in there.  Come up with a white flag in the morning, up the trail with their white flag and surrender, because you’re done.  You’re gonna be blowed up if you don’t come out.  So he took back with me up the hill, and I never bothered me a bit taking him back as a prison of war.  I was down there alone.

I get back up to our foxholes and I told, I was on radio, I had my radio, I told them what we was doing, they was, watching me.  I get back up on the hill where we were at, dug in, one thing and another, and they have somebody there to take this man prisoner of war.  So before they take him prisoners of war, I shared a candy bar with him.  I give him a candy bar and shook his hand.  And says, good luck, I’m glad you came up the way you did.  And I says, your friends will probably meet you tomorrow someplace else.

I never thought anything more about it until I was to church after all these years.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Fifty-two,  three years.  You understand it?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And I see this Japanese girl, and I think, wonder if she could have a grandpa that I saved his life.  Wouldn’t that be something if that young girl goes, back to Tokyo and maybe it’s her grandpa or somebody in her family that I took a prisoner of war.  And I give her my name and address and I told her about what had happened.  I says, when you go back home, you see in your family or relatives, and around if they know some man that was taken prisoner of war outside of Baguio City, and if he did, I’m Milo Ross.  And I’d sure like to write to him.  And if he’s still alive, I’d even pay his way over here.  You know what I mean?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I would.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  I – – But you get attached to this.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And it’s in your heart.  Now, lot of guys say, how – – how can you do things like this and do that?  You don’t do it.  You’re a trained.  Day in day out, day in and day out.  The guys that trained and stayed trained is the guys that come back home.  The guys that was lazy, they didn’t make it too good.  It was hard for them.  But the guys that stayed alert physical  – – there was five tech sergeants, first sergeant,  second, third, fourth sergeant,  and the master sergeant,  the company.   Five of us.  Trained together.   Five of us sergeants came home on the same bus ticket – – boat together.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Isn’t that amazing?

 

Wayne:  Yeah,  it is.

 

Milo:  Five of us.  And it just shows you, you can do ‘er.  And see then, I didn’t get to see my son until he was three years old.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:   I was gone for three years old.  But I have a wonderful wife that sent me letters, encouraged me.

 

Wayne:  It’s amazing, you know, how much the war has stayed with you, though.

 

Milo:  Nobody knows, though.  If you told somebody you used your helmet to mess in, do you think they’d believe you?

 

Wayne:  Well, I would.

 

Milo:  See, you have to.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, because I did.

 

Milo:  You had to.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  You had to.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: And people don’t realize.

 

Wayne:  But there are a lot of guys from world war two, you know, I think they – – were able to cut it right off.

 

Milo:  Forget it.

 

Wayne:  And forget it.  You haven’t.  Or you wouldn’t feel that way about that Japanese girl.

 

Milo:  It touched my heart.

 

Wayne:  Yeah,  yeah.

 

Milo:  I thought, here’s a young girl.  Maybe I saved her daddy to give her a life.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Huh?

 

Wayne:  Yeah,  indeed.

 

Milo:  See, I’m – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – I’m kind of a Mormon, you know.

 

Wayne:  When did you become a Mormon?

 

Milo:  Oh, what was it, back in ’36, ’37, when I was going into seminary, you know.

Hi Judy.

But, you know, little things like this in life, if I hadn’t of had a wonderful wife, I would have never come back home.

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo:  Never.  I’d have never come back home.  I’d have went into Japan  – –

 

Wayne:  You mean you’d have – –

 

Milo:  I’d have stayed.

 

Wayne:  You’d have pulled away somewhere.

 

Milo:  I would have stayed in the war.  Because I – – I’d have been – – I’d have been up, you know.  They – – they wanted me to take over platoons, they wanted me to do this, do that.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  They even sent me over to headquarters, you know.  And helped me over there.  You know, and helped me,  helped me, helped me.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  They liked me.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But if it hadn’t have been for – –

 

Wayne:  That’s interesting.  It didn’t surprise me when Harold became a career soldier.  Always thought Harold would like that.  But I didn’t  – – I wouldn’t have suspected that of you, you know.

 

Milo:  See, Harold got a Bronze Star.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Did he – – you talked to him?

 

Wayne:  Yes.

 

Milo:  He got a Bronze Star.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, over at Dad’s place right after Dad died.  Paul Knight got a Bronze Star.

 

Wayne:  Did he?

 

Milo:  He did.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh, in the Philippines.

 

Milo:  Dale Moyes – – Dale East was there, too.

 

Wayne:  Really.

 

Milo:  Yeah,  Dale East was there.

 

Wayne:  Yeah

 

Milo:  Blair Simpson was there.

 

Wayne:  In the Philippines?

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Did you run into all the guys.

 

Milo:  Never met a one of them.  Harold, my brother Harold – –

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  I went to Kibachiwan to see Milo Sharp, and the night I got to Kibachiwan, about 2:00 o’clock in the morning,  those guys were in trucks going out.  And how are you gonna find him?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  See, they’d relieved all the prisoners of war out of Kibachiwan.  Them guys, are the ones that caught the devil right there.  They – – they had a dirty setup taking prisoners of war there.

 

Wayne:  I didn’t see a soul from Plain City in the three years I was in the service.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Until I got back home.  I was in Europe course.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  And I think the Philippines, they cluster together more.  We were spread all over, you know.  Or I the – –

Can we cut back for a little bit to your life in Plain City – –

 

Milo:  (unintelligible)

 

Wayne:  – – you went to Plain City school, you went to Weber High school.   Any big adventures there?

 

Milo:  In school?

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  Oh, Mr. Bates, do you remember him?

 

Wayne:  Parley – – Parley Bates?

 

Milo:  Year, I remember Parley Bates.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.   Was he a big adventure?   I must have missed that part of him.

 

Milo:  He was – – oh, he was kind of like a prophet.

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo:  Yeah understand me?  You can do it.

 

Wayne:  Well, we tried to teach me mathematics.  And he thought he could.  He was no prophet there.

 

Milo:  Well, what I mean is, he – – he tried.

 

Wayne:  Oh, yeah, he tried.

 

Milo:  He tried, tried, tried, tried.  Do you understand?  Now, in algebra and geometry, I was easy.

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo:  Spelling?  I couldn’t even spell mother.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  They asked me to – – in school once to draw a Robin.  So I tried to draw a Robin, you know, Charcoal, whatever we had.  And when I got through drawing this little robin, the lady, sister Stewart, Norma Stewart, she says, Milo, what is this?  Is this an elephant. And I said, no, that’s a Robin.

 

But you know, spelling and  English,  things like that, I couldn’t go for it, you know. .

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But when it come to building homes and stuff like that, I could take a set of blueprints and I could tell you every board that went into it.?

 

Wayne:  Right.  Now, did you – – did you just learn that on your own?

 

Milo:  It’s  – –

 

Wayne:  All your building skills and – –

 

Milo:  It’s probably like in your brain, you know, you take school and you take math and one thing another, and you – – you pick it up here and you pick it up there.  And Harold Hunt taught me a lot.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Harold Hunt, Del Sharp.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo: Harold Hunt’s probably one of smartest men there is in the world on a square

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  Big framing square.

 

Wayne:  One of the quietest men in the world.

 

Milo:  Quietest men in the world.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: Wonderful.  They’ve done a lot of good for Plain City.  If you want to ask me questions, go right ahead.   I’m just talking.

 

Wayne:  No, that’s fine.  I – – I’ve wanted to go talk to Harold, you know, but I’ve been scared a little bit.

 

Milo:  I’ll go with you.

 

Wayne:  Well,  I’m not sure we will because I’m out here tomorrow.

 

Milo:  Oh, But he’d be tickled to death for you to come over.

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo : Yes, sir.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, I always feel like I’m butting in on people.

 

Gladys:  You ought to go see him a minute before you leave.

 

Milo:  He’d  be glad to talk to you.  And you could ask him about Howard.

 

Wayne:  Yeah that’s true.

 

Gladys:  Jump in the car and go over and see him before you go home.

 

Milo:  You got a minute?

 

Wayne:  Oh, boy, I gotta go see Frank Hadley pretty quick.  Maybe I could catch a minute tomorrow.

 

Milo:  Okay.

 

Wayne:  I can call you?  Or I’ll just go over and – – will he mind if I call him?

 

Milo:  He’d be glad to see you.

 

Wayne: His wife’s Ina.

 

Milo:  Ina.

 

Wayne:  Who was she.

 

Milo:  She was an Etherington from West Weber.

 

Wayne:  Adele’s  – – Ladell’s brother – –

 

Milo:  Right.

 

Wayne:  – – Right.  Tell me, you made your life after the war as a builder,  right?

 

Milo:  I worked for the American Pack for many years.

 

Wayne:  Oh, did you?

 

Milo:  I was assistant foreman on the killing floor for many years.

 

Wayne: Oh, that became Swift.

 

Milo:  Used to be the American Pack, then Swift took over.  Then when Swift come over, they came in with the union.  And I could see what was happening.   They put them on piecework.   And when they put them on piecework,  I could see what was happening and I decided to get out of there.  So I got out of there and I went into – – to the carpenter business and I went to work – – second day I quit, I went to work on the 24th street Viaduct as a carpenter.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  So, I helped on the 24th street viaduct I built some scaffolding horses for them on them a-frames, on them I-beams and stuff like that,  to put the plank and that on – –

 

Wayne:  Is that the – – Are you talking about the new – –

 

Milo: 24th street viaduct.

 

Wayne:  When they pulled the old – –

 

Milo: West side down.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: They took that all down right after the war.  But I went to work over there for Wheelright’s Toughy Wheelright.

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo:  And they sent me from – – they sent me up on Kaysville up there with another guy and we went up there and we laid out a great big water tank hole.  He was a surveyor,  and he took me up there and he taught me how to survey, how to use an instrument, you know, and how to lay it out.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And everybody seemed to like they kind of liked me when I got on a job with something like that, and it just seemed like everything fell together.  And then I went to work for Westingskow and Clay.  And I was a purchaser for them.

 

Wayne:  I’m sorry, who?

 

Milo:  Westingskow and Clay.

 

Wayne:  Westing- –

 

Milo:  Westingskow.

 

Wayne:  Skow.

 

Milo:  Yeah.   And Ben Clay.  They were builders.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  We built down in Roy, Clearfield, and right in that area there.  They- – one of the biggest builders right after the war.

 

Wayne:  Work on all those homes that have filled up – –

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne :  – – The country?

 

Milo:  Yeah. And then I – – I went – – I built 1q units,  four-plexes for C.R. England in Roy.

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo:  You remember that?

 

Wayne:  Well, I remember Chester.

 

Milo:  Chester England,  he had the lumber yard.

 

Wayne:  I wasn’t around when he was in the lumber business no.

 

Milo: But I- – I went down into Roy right above the old folks’ home there and built 11 four-plexes for him. That’s the first – – first million dollars he made.

 

 

Wayne:  Really?

 

Milo:  Yeah.  He was offered a million dollars for them after we got completed.

 

Wayne:  Well, he just built them on speculation?

 

Milo:  Well, he had me build them and he furnished all the material and everything out of his lumber yard.  And he had me as a foreman and I overseen them.  And I helped them survey their sewer in for Roy sewer and we run the water and everything.  It was kind of new to all of them at that time- –

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  – – to have that many units.   And they were kind of glad to have somebody help them, you know, to get their right measurements from the road and everything.   And it kind of work out nice.  But I worked for Chester England for all those years.  And then I work with Chester England in Plain City.  See, we built about 15 homes in Plain City for C.R. England.  But he financed each one of the homes we built for those people.

 

Wayne :  We’re these just individual lots?

 

Milo:  Individual lots.

 

Wayne:  They’re not side-by-side.

 

Milo:  No, just individuals.

 

Wayne: Uh-huh.

 

Milo: Down by the cemetery.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  See, he built them down through there.  And then after we got through with C.R. England, see, I went into business on myself and I had five guys working for me.  And we started to remodeling like Milton Brown’s house and built Dale Moyes’ house and Ike Moyes’ house.  We went right on through, Claire Folkman’s house, you know.

 

Wayne:  Where – – did Milton Brown live in Plain City.

 

Milo:  He lived in Warren,  down by the creek.

 

Wayne:  That’s what I thought.  By third creek.

 

Milo:  By Earl’s.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, that’s right,  yeah.

 

Milo:  See we remodeled his house.  And but I- – I  built Plain City Church with Lee Carver.  I built 38, 39th ward chapel on – – in South Ogden with Lee Carver.  He was the supervisor there.

 

Wayne:  He kind of worked for the church, didn’t he?

 

Milo:  He did work for the church.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Worked for the church  (unintelligible).  I wrote Lee Carver a letter too.

 

Wayne:  I understand he’s in a rest home now.

 

Milo:  He’s in a rest home on 9th Street with his boy, Brent.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  I’m glad the two of them can be together.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  I tried to call his daughter, Karen, but I can’t get them. I think they’re out – –

 

Milo:  If you wanna get a hold Lee Carver, I’ll go with you.  On 9th Street.  Take you right to his room.

 

Gladys:  Lee would be thrilled – –

 

Milo: He’d be glad  – –

 

Gladys:  – – to see you.

 

Milo:  You’d be- – you’d  do you good to get some tapes of that.

 

Wayne:  I’ve got – – I’ve got about ten tapes from Lee about ten years ago when he was still working out in his shop.

 

Milo:  They never give Lee Carver credit for building the Plain City church.  They didn’t even mention his name, dedication, you know that?

 

Wayne:  No.

 

Milo:  They didn’t even mention Milo Ross name a builder on it when they dedicated our church.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  It’s sad.  The guy that does the work and everything, he don’t get – – when we built Plain City Bowery up there, Junior Taylor and I done all the cement work.  They didn’t even mention that.  They mentioned the other guys that was in Lions’ club and this and that.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  Do you understand?

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  But us guys, Junior Taylor and Milo Ross, they never give us credit for nothing.

 

Wayne:  Was Junior a builder?

 

Milo:  He helped cement, yeah, he helped us.  You see Clark Taylor run a housing building outfit up 2nd Street.  They called it Vitt’s Constitution.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  Clark Taylor was the strawman of it.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  He was the driver.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  That was up 2nd Street.  And Junior Taylor and Hugh Taylor and all then guys and Wilmette Taylor and all them come in, and he give us all work.  And that’s – – it helped each one of us progress.  But it’s really special.

 

Wayne: Yeah.  Well, I’m gonna have to go and I’ve kept you long enough.  Can you make a – – you’ve lived here all your life except for those four years you were in service.

 

Milo:  Three years.

 

Wayne :  Three years.   What do you make of it all?

 

Milo:  I’ve seen – – I’ve even got a picture of Milo, myself, in a buggy,  four, five of us in a buggy, one-horse-drawn buggy.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo :  I’m back that far.  And I remember we only had one light in a house, ceiling.

 

Wayne:  hanging from the – –

 

Milo: Hanging down.  You had to turn that on.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  I remember Merle England gathering up milk after a while, he started gathering up the milk.  They used to have to take their milk to the creamery there they separated it, cream and milk.

 

Wayne: Right.

 

Milo:  I’ve got a cream separator out here I’ll show you before you go.

 

Wayne:  Have you?

 

Milo:  And I remember Ed Sharp getting one – – probably one – – not the first truck in here, but one of the first trucks.  Winer Maw, remember that great big truck they brought in here that had hard wheel rubber tires.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  And – –

 

Wayne: A motorized truck?

 

Milo:  Yes, sir.

 

Wayne:  Not on pneumatic tires?

 

Milo:  It didn’t have on the – – it didn’t have on the air tires.  It had on – –

 

Wayne:  Good heavens.

 

Milo:  It had hard pressed rubber, like hard rubber on it.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: And the young boy, George Maw, was probably the one that drove it from Ogden out to here.  I’m not sure.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  Because we used to be able to go down to Maw’s and work a little bit to get a – – some lunch meat, baloney, and black Nigger Babies, and stuff like that, you know.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Used to go help them unload coal and stuff like that to pick up a dollar.  We didn’t have money.  That’s what makes it bad.  But I – – remember the one light and milking the cows by hand.  Everybody had cows.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Everybody had chickens.  They had animals.  Ducks and geese.  They traded eggs.  They traded wheat and grain.  I can remember when they used to grind their grain through that grinder.

 

Wayne: Oh.

 

Milo:  Grind it, you know, and make their own bread.  And they’d – – you didn’t have butter and stuff like that.  You couldn’t buy it.  You make your own butter.

 

Wayne:  Do you remember the old creamery out there.

 

Milo:  Yes, sir.  Right across  – –

 

Wayne: That was ruins when we were kids.

 

Milo:  Yeah.   That was right where Timmy Folkman lives there now on the north side by Fred Hunt’s house.

 

Wayne:  That’s just about across from Fred.

 

Milo:  Barn.

 

Wayne:  Down by the barn. Whose creamery was that?

 

Milo: I don’t know.

 

Wayne:  Do you know who started it or – –

 

Milo: I don’t know.  Lee Carver tore that down for the materials.

 

Wayne:  Did he?

 

Milo:  Uh-huh.

 

Wayne:  I remember that.

 

Milo:  Yeah.  Lee Carver –

 

Wayne:  Used to go down there and play in the ruins.

 

Milo:  Yeah.   He used to go there.  And on Saturdays and Sundays, they used to come there, and we used to box.  Harold Hunt had boxing gloves and he’d get us to use the gloves and box each other, you know.

 

Wayne: Yeah, Ted was telling me about that.  I hadn’t realized that.

 

Milo: Yeah, but we was having fun.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  And then Harold Hunt and Bert Hunt and Lloyd Robbins and a bunch of them guys had their horses they used to ride. And they’d also play Wyatt Earp and all that and go underneath the horses belly and all this and that.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  And Lloyd Robbins – – Lynn Robbins, he went underneath the horse up by uncle Ed Sharp’s, and when he went underneath the horse and came back up, the horse was running, and there’s a guy – wire that comes from the poles down into the ground?  And he caught that guy-wire on the side of his face and tore his face open that’s why he had a scar there.

 

Wayne:  I remember that.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  He was a tall skinny kid.

 

Milo:  Tall skinny boy.

 

Wayne:  Was he Dob and Blaine’s  – –

 

Milo:  Yeah,  brother.

 

Wayne:  Or, no, who was Dob?

 

Milo:  Blaine.

 

Wayne:  Blaine.  And it was Blaine and Lloyd.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  And Lynn.

 

Wayne:  And Lynn.

 

Milo:  And Lois.

 

Wayne:  We’re they Ire’s – –

 

Milo:  Ire’s kids.

 

Wayne:  Kids.

 

Milo:  But everybody had cows.  Everybody drove their cows from Plain City out to pastures.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Carvers done the same thing.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And – –

 

Wayne:  Some came east, some went west.

 

Milo:  Did I tell you about the log cabin, the Carvers – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: Okay.  I’ll tell you about the log cabin in Plain City.  The kids got into the old log cabin they had a roof over it to protect it.  And the kids got in there after the war and they – – they play up on the roof of the old cabin house, between that and the roof that they put over it to protect it.  And they got to using it for a latrine.  Instead of getting down, they’d urinate.   And in summer, you go down there to help fix up the old log cabin house, it smelled so bad, you couldn’t hardly stand the odor.   So the daughters of pioneers – – who had it at that time, Gladys?  Aunt Vic  Hunt?

 

Gladys:  Aunt Vic Hunt was one of the leaders.

 

Milo:  Who was the other one?

 

Wayne:  Mindi?

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  In Moyes?

 

Milo:  Oh, the Carver girl.  Bud Carver’s daughter.

 

Wayne:  Beth?

 

Gladys:  Beth.

 

Milo:  Beth.

 

Wayne:  Oh,  okay.

 

Milo:  She had me come down and see what to do with the log cabin house, the Carver log cabin house.  They wanted to kind of restore it and keep it because it was going down to nothing.

 

Wayne :  Yeah.

 

Milo:  The plaster and everything was falling out of the walls.

 

Wayne:  That’s when it was down here by Walt’s

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: But the plaster and everything was falling out of the walls and the roof and the ceiling and all the thing was going down .  The windows were broke out and everything like that.  So I went down and I told them, I says, I’ll fix it up, but I’m not gonna leave that roof on top because that’s where the kids are doing your damage.  I’m gonna take it all down, and make the log cabin, the Carver log cabin, so everybody can admire it.  So I – – over years, I’ve kept the log cabin up.  And Rosella Maw, Arlo Maw’s wife has a key to it now.  Where I used to have a key, now they won’t let me have a key to it anymore.  Since Rosella Maw took over, I don’t have a key.

 

Gladys: (unintelligible)

 

Milo:  Huh?

 

Gladys:  Rosella wants it.

 

Milo:  Rosella Maw.

 

Wayne:  We were in it just Saturday because there was a Carver reunion and Joanne went over to Rosella and got the key.

 

Milo:  You have to get the key.

 

Wayne:  We went in.

 

Milo:  I used to have a key.

 

Wayne:  That’s a shame

 

Milo:  I took care of it all my life, you understand?

 

Wayne :  Yeah.

 

Milo: Since the war and- –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  And I fixed it all up and I put them big heavy shakes shingles on it and everything and I’ve put the mud back in the walls and fixed it up.  And I’ve put the steel gate and that on there.  And the windows.  I’ve fixed it all up.  And I’ve put great big long spikes through some of the logs, drove them spikes in through there so they cannot pull them out.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  See, I’ve cut the heads off the spikes and drove them – –

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  – -right in so kids – – and the kids use to tear them apart.  They’d take a log out and go through.  And that’s why them spikes are in there, put all them in there.  But over the years, Harold Carver- – Harold Carver donated money to president Calvert to shingle it and fix it up, some money one time.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  So president Calvert said he had this, money and that for it.  And I says, well, let me tear the roof and that all off and, let me fix it so it’s nice.  So that’s why theses thick but shingles are on there, them big slate shingles, and that.

 

Wayne:  Uh-huh.

 

Milo:  But otherwise,  you wouldn’t have a Carver building.

 

Wayne:  I hadn’t known that, you know, Milo.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne:  I’m really proud that that’s the Carver thing up there.

 

Milo:  I am too.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Because the Carvers meant a lot to me.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo: Yeah.  Your dad, your mother was – – they were gold to us.  They shared their garden with us.  She’d pick beans and stuff and say, Gladys, would you like a mess of beans?  Gladys says, yes, I’ll be over to pick them.  She’d go over to pick them, they were already picked.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Gladys:  I had to take care of my handicapped daughter and that before I could go pick.

 

Milo:  But you see – –

 

Gladys:  Already had them picked.

 

Milo:  The Carvers- – the Carvers had really been a dad and mother to a lot of us.

 

Wayne:  I remember – – I’ve got a letter, you wrote dad a letter – –

 

Milo:  In the war.

 

Wayne:  – – in the war.  A very tender letter, yeah.

 

Milo:  But it come from my heart.

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  Do you know why I wrote him a letter?   Sent me a card.  Joe Hunt sent me a card.  Do you understand it?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  You never forget that.

 

Wayne:  No. Yeah.

 

Milo:  But I – – I am a high-decorated soldier.  I was turned in for Congressional Medal of Honor and one of the lieutenants wouldn’t sign it.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:   You have to have two signatures.  But I did get a Silver Star.

 

Wayne:  Right.

 

Milo:  Do you understand me?

 

Wayne:  Yeah.   Did you ever meet George Whalen that got the Congressional medal?

 

Milo:  No.

 

Wayne:  The Slater Villegas kid?

 

Milo:  He was – –

 

Wayne:  He was in the navy- –

 

Milo:  – – Paramedics.

 

Wayne:  Yeah,  he was in – – oh, well, ever sorry you came back to Plain City?

 

Milo:  Well, I’ve lived in Plain City all my life.

 

Wayne:  I know.

 

Milo:  Plain City’s been our home all of our lives.  Its, like I was telling you about my dad, everybody told me not to go see him, I went and seen him.  And I’m glad I went and seen him.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo :  You understand me?  And this Japanese girl I was telling you about, if she is a daughter or relative to that guy that I took prisoner of war, my heart will be full of joy to think that I saved another generation of families.

 

Wayne:  Right,  but – – that will be one of the great miracles of all time- –

 

Milo:  It can happen.

 

Wayne:  – – If – -if she finds someone out of that – –

 

Milo:  It’s could be.

 

Wayne:  Oh,  it could be.   I don’t doubt that it could be.

 

Milo:  It could be.

 

Wayne:  But it’s called a miracle.

 

Milo:  Miracle.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But it does happen every day.

 

Wayne:  Yeah?  So I know Harold lives over in West Weber.

 

Milo:  West Weber.

 

Wayne:  Paul was killed, you say?

 

Milo:  My brother Paul?  He died in a barn at Ed Sharp’s.

 

Wayne:  Your brother.

 

Milo:  My brother.   See, they were playing in the barn up at Ed Sharp’s and he fell out of the barn and broke his arm and concussion of the head, broke his head open.

 

Wayne:  How old was he then?

 

Milo:  Paul would have to be about nine or 11, somewhere in there.

 

Wayne:  So that happened not long after you came back to Plain City.

 

Milo:  We came back home down here.

 

Wayne:  And your sister – –

 

Milo:  June.

 

Wayne:  – – June.

 

Milo:  She’s still alive and living in California.   In Anaheim, I think she lived down around Anaheim, (unintelligible) district area. But tell him – – tell him about the letters aunt Vic Hunt was gonna give me, then she didn’t give me the cigar box.

 

Gladys:  I’ve got some letters.  And they’re Milo’s, they were sent to Milo’s, and I’ve kept them all these years and I wanna give them to him.  Se me and Milo went over this night.  And she says, well, they’re upstairs.   I’ll have to go upstairs and get them.  So she opened that door to go upstairs, then she come back and says, no, Milo, I don’t think I’m gonna give you these letters yet.  So Milo never got those letters.

 

Milo:  She’s handed me the cigar box.

 

Gladys:  She handed them to him, then took them back.

 

Milo:  I says, Aunt Vic, if that means that much to you, you take this box back.   I never got the box.

 

Wayne:  And you said you think you know who has that?

 

Milo:  I think Archie Hunt’s family got it.

 

Wayne:  Archie.

 

Milo:  But I’m not never gonna say anything to Archie Hunt.

 

Wayne:  Now, who – – yeah.

 

Milo:  It’s Bert.  That would be Fred Hunt’s- –

 

Wayne:  Did Archie marry Carol?

 

Milo:  Yeah.  Ralph Taylor.

 

Wayne:  Ralph and Elma’s, yeah.

 

Milo:  What’s in that box, little bit of money and that was in that box, do you understand?   Were the gifts that they’d sent me.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Gold pieces and stuff like that.  I really don’t care.  Silver certificate notes, gold notes.  You know, they had silver and gold certificates then, you know.

 

Wayne:  I’ve heard of them.  I don’t remember seeing them.

 

Milo:  Well,  I got some.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  But I got – -but I will – – I’ll – – I’ll fix you up a copy of my citations.

 

Wayne:  I’d appreciate that a lot.  And I’m not gonna have time to see – –

 

Milo:  Now, Frank – – Frank Hadley has got a lot of history about the baseball playing.  And he’s got a lot about Milo Ross pitching the ball game, 13 strikeouts, 12 strikeouts, 11 strikeouts, you know what I mean?  No hitters.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: And Frank Hadley has all of that.  But I’ve never been able to get him- –

 

Wayne:  has he got the score books?

 

Milo:  Yes.

 

Wayne:  Has he?

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Wayne:  I’ve gotta go over and talk to him.

 

Milo:  Yeah.

 

Gladys:  He’d love to see you.

 

Wayne:  What?

 

Milo:  You know where he lives.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Down there.

 

Wayne: Yeah.  I see him in the winter at st. George.

 

Milo:  Do you go down there?

 

Wayne:  We’ve been renting a place, so we go whenever we can find a place to live.

 

Milo:  Archie Hunt has a home in – – ground in St. George,  Archie Hunt. And they rent that out.

 

Wayne:  Oh.

 

Milo:  So maybe you ought to get a hold Archie Hunt and put a trailer on there once in a while.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  Are you still teaching?

 

Wayne:  No.  I retired.

 

Milo:  You’ve retired

 

Wayne:  Yeah.   I taught until was 70 and decided that was enough.

 

Milo:  Dr. Burst has a son that he’s – – Nicholas.  Just put him in Stanford, California for $31,000 for one year, schooling.  Thirty, thirty-one thousand.

 

Wayne:  Yeah,  I can believe it.  My school is about 28.

 

Milo: Yeah.

 

Wayne: Yeah.  And there are families that have got two or three kids – –

 

Milo:  Right.

 

Wayne: – – that – – I couldn’t afford Weber College.

 

Milo:  Well, that’s the way – –

 

Wayne: Which was 56 a year.

 

Milo:  But I have that grandson there that picks up close to $52,000 on paper – –

 

Wayne: Yeah.

 

Milo:  – – Besides what other he gets.   When they went back to these here scholarship meetings and stuff like this,  they give them tapes, they give them the recordings, they gave them pamphlets for the computers.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo:  They pick up like- – what did he tell us – – $7,000 in these pamphlets and stuff for the computers, disk and stuff like that.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: They’re gifts to these kids.   If you had to buy them, it’s amazing.

 

Gladys :  He’s just a very smart boy and he isn’t a smart alec

He’s just as nice as can be.

 

Milo:  He’s nice like his father and his grandfather.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.

 

Milo: But you take – – you take the Carver family, probably respected more than any family in Plain City that I’ve ever known, the Carver family.

 

Wayne:  Yeah, well, I’m real pleased to hear that.  I’m, you know, it’s been so long since I’ve lived here, I – -and it almost breaks my heart when I see the that the old town has disappeared,  you know, bears no relationship.

 

Milo:  You see, I remodeled your dad’s place.

 

Wayne:  Oh, I thought that’s all you did. I didn’t know you worked for contractors.

 

Milo:  Well, I worked for contract- –

 

Wayne: You built mom’s kitchen that she was so proud of.

 

Milo:  I got underneath the floor, put the floor back together.  There wasn’t even any floor under it.

 

Wayne: I don’t know what’s in there now.

 

Milo:  Your family’s in there.

 

Wayne: Well, it breaks Joan heart the way Lorin and Carolyn have just let it – –

 

Milo:  They let it go.

 

Wayne:  Yeah.  Well- –

 

(Tape Ends.)

Jonas History: Jonas/Schumacher

As I mentioned earlier, I have the history written by Carvel Jonas on our Jonas Family History.  Here is another chapter from his book.

    “Our Jonas descendants from Utah can all trace their genealogy to the Rheinland in Germany to, so far, the early 1700’s.  This is the area where all of our great grandfathers and great grandmothers lived.  The Jonas last name can be traced to a little town called Kirchheim.  All the Jonas; we know of originated from Kirchheim, including Hubert Jonas who is the first, and as far as we know, the only member of the Jonas clan who sailed to America.  Hubert’s wife was born in Oberdrees, a little town near Kirchheim.  Her name was Maria Catharina Schumacher.  She went by the name of Mary.  Mary’s mother was also from Oberdrees, and her mother’s family as far back as we can go were also from Oberdrees.  Mary’s father was Johann Peter Schumacher.  The Schumacher’s came from Schweinheim, another town near Kirchheim.  Maria Catharina Schumacher was born 13 Sep 1815.  All of our ancestors from Joseph Jonas, born 10 Jan 1859, back to the early 1700’s belonged to the Roman Catholic Church, and were Prussian until they came to America.  Many of our records past the year 1800 come from parish records and give only christening dates instead of birthdays.  Mary is the only child we can find born to Johann Peter Schumacher, born 4 Jun 1793, and Anna Maria Schmitz born 1 Oct 1792.  Mary’s record of birth was not found under the Schumacher last name, but under her mother’s last name, Schmitz.  Mary’s parents were not married until she was 18 years old.  They were married 31 Jan 1834.  Fortunately they were married and left us a record, or our genealogical would end without knowing who Mary’s father’s family were.  Johann Petrus Schumacher’s parents were Hubert Schumacher, a farmer, and Elisabeth Nuecken.  They had three children.  Our great grandfather, John Peter, was the middle child.  Anna Maria Schmitz’s parents were Christian Schmitz and Anna Christina Siep.  They had two children, our great grandmother was the oldest. 
    “Joseph Jonas’ father was Hubert Jonas, born 8 Oct 1816 at Kirchheim, Rheinland, Germany.  Hubert’s parents were Wilhelm Jonas, Chr 23 Jul 1773 and died 27 May 1843, and Anna Catharina Breuer, Chr 21 Jun 1782 and died 5 Feb 1855.  Wilhelm and Anna were married 19 Jul 1802 in Kuchenheim.  They were parents of eleven children, 6 girls and 5 boys.  Our great grandfather, Hubert, was the fifth child and second son.  Wilhelm was a farmer and a weaver by trade.  Hubert was also a weaver, and mostly a farmer. 
    “Hubert Jonas was 43 years old when our great grandfather, Joseph was born.  Huber’s father, Wilhelm Jonas, was also 43 years old when Hubert was born.  Wilhelm’s father, another Hubert Jonas Chr 7 Nov 1728, was over 45 years old when Wilhelm was born.  So in our genealogy line about 131 years pass in time before a fourth generation was born, he being Joseph Jonas who was born 10 January 1859.  To continue the Jonas genealogy line Hubert Jonas, Chr 7 Nov 1728 and died Apr 1785 was married to a Gertrud Hartzheim.  They had five children, 2 boys and 3 girls.  Our great grandfather, Wilhelm, was their youngest child.  Huber’s father was Jacob Jonas.  We do not have Jacob’s birthday yet.  We do know that he married Catharina Zimmermann and they had seven children.  Jacob remarried and had two more sons.  A death date for Catharina Zimmermann has not been found, but we can assume it is between 14 Jun 1735, the birthdate of her last child, and 28 Nov 1741, the date Jacob remarried.  Records for a third man named Hubert Jonas were also found.  He was a few years younger than Jacob Jonas, and was also found on the same church records from Kirchheim.  It is the opinion of the author that these two were brothers.  Because of their similar last names, both living in the same small town, and Jacob was a witness to Huber’s first child’s baptism.  Also, the name Hubert was given to Jacob’s second child.  It is estimated that Jacob Jonas was born about 1699-1706.  The significance of finding these two brothers is that it assures us the Jonas last name continues back farther in time, even though known records may not.  Anna Catharina Breuer, Chr 19 Jul 1782, father’s name was Johannes Breuer.  He married Christina Neuenheim the 22 Jul 1777.  Both had been married before and had lost their first companions to death as both were widowed.  Johanne’s first wife, Margaretha Reuter, died Jan 1777 after almost twelves years of marriage.  Seven months later he married our great great grandmother, Christine Neuenheim.  Her first husband had died about nine years before she remarried.  They had two daughters, our great grandmother being the youngest.  Johannes Breuer had had three sons before his first wife died.  Johannes Breuer’s parents were Christian Breuer who died 7 Sep 1757, and Barbara Bessenich who died 16 Jul 1761.  Christian and Barbara had four children, two boys and two girls.  Johannes Breuer and his twin brother, Petrus, were the oldest children of the family. 
    “Now for the more specific history of Hubert Jonas, born 8 Oct 1816 at Kirchheim, Rheinland, Germany; his wife and children.  Hubert was the 6th child and second son of Wilhelm and Anna Jonas.  He was taught in the trade of a weaver as his father was, but records in America show that he mostly farmed.  He married Mary Catharina Schumacher 25 Jan 1844 at Rheinbach.  He was 27 years old when he married and she was 28 years old.  They had three children born to them in Germany.  They were all sons.  Peter Jonas born 13 Feb 1845; Johann Wilhelm born 24 Jun 1848; Johann born 17 Nov 1849.  They were all born in Rheinbach, and it is very likely that Hubert and Mary lived in Rheinbach after they were married.  All of these three sons died before marrying.  Our family didn’t have any knowledge of Johann Wilhelm, who must have died as a very young infant.  Since no record was found for his death in Germany he must have died sailing to America or shortly after arriving.  The only death record we have of these three son’s which has been found is for Johann Jonas.  He died 7 Aug 1870 at Frenchtown, Michigan.  He was a single, 20 year old who had worked as a farmer with his father.  He died of consumption, which is the archaic term for tuberculosis.  Peter, the oldest son is believed to have died from the same sickness.  According to cousin Verla both boys caught a disease from the horses they loved to work with.  The county records for Monroe county only go back to 1867, so it is believed that Peter died a few years before 1867.  Peter’s brother took his older brother’s name of Peter when he was confirmed at the local perish in 1866.  Peter’s name is recorded on the 1860 general census, but is missing on the 1870 general census.  So we can reasonable deduct that Peter died between 1860 and 1866.  This is consistent with what members of the family remembered.  Rosa told her daughter, Verla, that Peter and John were both in their early 20’s when they died. 
    “After arriving in America, Hubert and Mary had three more son’s born to them.  They were Wilhelm (William), who was most likely named after his grandfather.  William was born Sep 1851.  Francis, who was born to them about 1854.  Joseph who was born 10 Jan 1859.  The exact date of immigration is not know to date.  But we know they came between 17 Nov 1849 when Johann was born in Germany, and Sep 1851 when Wilhelm was born in America.  It is very likely they came during the summer month’s of either 1850 of 1851.  If they immigrated in 1850 Hubert would have been 33 years old and Mary would have been 34 years old, unless they left after Sep 1850.  If they left after Sep then we would need to add one more year to their ages.  Even though we don’t have the exact date of immigration we have it isolated to only two different years.  Also, Hubert and Mary never naturalized after coming to America according to the Michigan records.  Some speculation has been given by the author about the reason or reasons Hubert took his young children who were only about 6, 2, and 1 years of age across the Atlantic to America.  Hubert’s father had died before the immigration.  But his mother, and some of his brothers and sisters were still alive.  In researching it is noted that beginning in 1844 harvests were poor in Germany and business decreased  Many Germans were hungry and out of work.  There were also many revolts in almost all the German capitals in 1848 against the existing government and debate about the united Germany.  Perhaps these events influenced Hubert to leave and find new opportunities in America. 
    “Hubert and Mary first bought land on the 1 Mar 1858.  It was about 20 acres in Frenchtown, Monroe county, Michigan and cost them $300.00 dollars.  Frenchtown was in south east Michigan.  Hubert lived on land that is now called Woodland Beach.  They went to St. Michael’s parish, which is in Monroe City.  This was a parish organized specifically for the German immigrants.  The church has recorded on the death register Johannes Jonas in the year of 1870 which date matches the vital county records.  The county record has Hubert and Mary Jonas as parents.  The parish also has confirmation for Johannes Jonas the 26 May 1864.  He took the name Antonius.  They also have a confirmation of Johannes Jonas 16 Jun 1870 who took the name of Franciscus (Frances) which was one of the children of Hubert and Mary.  Also, the confirmation of Wilhelm Jonas 30 Sep 1866 who took the name of Peter-which was the name of the oldest child who died before 1867.  The second confirmation of Johannes Jonas was performed less than two months before his death. 
    “Hubert bought land for the second time 21 Jan 1865.  He bought about 40 acres for $800.00.  On 19 Nov 1867 he bought about 13 acres for $125.00.  28 Jul 1868 he bought one undivided 6th part of a certain piece of land for $200.00.  By 4 Mar 1871 Hubert and Mary sold all of their 46 acres in Frenchtown township for $1,000.00.  There may have been a transaction or two which we don’t know about because the acres don’t add up to 46.  These land records tell us a little about Hubert.  For example, the record of 1865 the clerk wrote Hubert Unos and that he was called Jonas.  The name was probabaly misspelled because Hubert would have said Jonas with the German pronunciation which give the letter J a Y sound as in the word you.  Also, when they sold all their land in Frenchtown they reserved the wheat now growing on said land, and privilege of harvesting and removing the same.  So we learn that Hubert grew wheat that year.  His son, Wilhelm, was growing wheat about 1900, so it is possible that wheat was the main crop Hubert grew during his farming career. 
    “On 4 Mar 1871, the same day Hubert sold his 46 acres for $1,000, he bought 72 acres for $1,000 in another town.  This time the family moved to Ash Township.  This new land was about 6 miles northwest of their land in Frenchtown.  On a 1876 atlas for Ash Township there is in sec 29, 70 acres for H. Jonas with the Little Swan Creek running thru the property at the north end.  On the other side of this creek is the village of Grafton, and it’s post office and store on the remaining 10 acres (which Hubert did not own).  The name of the owners around this area were mostly English and Irish.  The old Wayne and Monroe Railroad (now the Chesapeake and Ohio) formed the east border of the property.  The land to the south and west was farm land.  A Stoney creek was not on Hubert’s property, but ran westerly 1 mile or south of his land, and this same river was very close to his property in Frenchtown.
    “A land record recorded 4 Feb 1879 gives the date Hubert and Mary sold their 72 acres and moved from the state of Michigan.  Census records for 1860 and 1870 have been found for Hubert and Mary.  They show the family members names and indicate that Hubert and his son’s were all farmers.  The 1880 general census tell us that Hubert was living in Nebraska.  We learn that Hubert was 63 years and 10 months old when he first became a grandfather.  Hubert, his son Wilhelm, Wilhelm’s wife and their daughter, Anna, were living with another family whose surname was also Jonas.  Joseph, our great grandfather, was also found on the 1880 census, which was recorded Jun 23-24 of that year.  However Joseph was living in Columbus, Nebraska, working on the railroad.  It was first believed that this other Jonas family was a branch of our Jonas family.  But it proved incorrect.  It was coincidental that these two Jonas families met.  They belonged to the same religion, and were also Prussian.  The 1880 census also recorded the death of Hubert’s wife, Mary.  She died in Mar of 1880 of consumption.  This year coincides with the family history which was recorded in a history of Central Washington which states that Mary died in America in 1880.  The place that they lived at in Nebraska was called Pleasant Valley, which was in existence for only a year before our family arrived.  Today it is called St. Bernard, and was named after the parish that Hubert and Mary went to.  St. Bernard was a German settlement established in Jun 1878.  This is were our great grandmother, Mary, is buried, although the exact spot is not known.  The Platte County vital records have the marriage of Hubert’s oldest living son, Wilhelm.  When he was 26 years old he married Emma Schriber.  She was 22 years old.  They were married 20 May 1879.  It was only 11 months after Hubert sold his land in Michigan that his wife died in Nebraska.  Hubert stayed in Pleasant Valley from Feb or Mar of 1879 until a little after the 20 Jan 1883.  On this last date the following was reported in the local newspaper, “The Democrate”, under court proceedings.  Below will be found the disposition made in all the cases on the docket for the term just closed.  Hubert Jonas vs Peter Lonsbert passed.  This information lets us know that Hubert was still living in Pleasant Valley the first part of 1883.  Hubert stayed in this area for about 4 years.  Then the Jonas family moved west in 1883.  When the author was in Spokane, Washington doing some research he found a land record.  It was known that Huber’s son, Francis, lived in Spokane County, but no records were found of him.  Instead, a land record was found for Hubert Jonas.  bought 25 Sep 1883, 8 a.m. for $65.00, Hubert bought some land in the town of Sprague.  In the land record the words premises are used, and it is likely that Hubert bought a home and that Francis lived with him for a short time.  The selling of this property was not found.  Now the town of Sprague is in Lincoln County.  By 1885 Hubert and his two son’s William and Joseph were all found on the census in Ellensburg, Kittitas County, Washington.  Joseph and William had bought land together and all farmed for a while.  A census of 1887 shows Hubert still alive.  This same year all three of Huber’s son’s were living in Ellensburg.  Francis baptized a boy in the St. Andrew church in town who was born 5 Sep 1887.  At least for a little while Hubert had all three of his living children in one place living with him before his death.  There isn’t an official record of Hubert’s death do to poor record keeping at the local parish, and a fire which destroyed many of the civil records at the county building.  The Holy Cross Cemetery in Ellensburg is Hubert’s final resting place.  The church records only have record of where his body was buried, but not the exact date of death.  We believe it was in 1889.  Hubert’s granddaughter, Rosa, remembered that she was about 3 years old when he died.  So we estimated the year of death. 
    “An important article was discovered in the history of Central Washington from a book entitled “History of Klickitah, Yakima, and Kittitas counties.”  It is quoted here in it’s entirety.  Note that some of the information is incorrect and the correct information has been provided inside the brackets.  “William Jonas, one of Kittitas County’s successful farmers, lives two miles north and a mile and a quarter east of Ellensburg, Washington.  His father, Hubert Jonas, was born in Germany, in 1814 (8 Oct 1816), and came to the United States when thirty-six years old, and farmed in Michigan, Nebraska, and Washington.  His mother, Katherine Shoemaker (Maria Catharina Schumacher) Jonas, was born in Germany, in 1815 (13 Sep 1815), and died in America, in 1880 (Mar).  Their other sons are: Frank, who lives in Spokane County, and Joseph, a resident of Thorp, Washington.”
    “Mr. Jonas, of this articles, was educated in the schools of Michigan, and followed farming in that state until he was twenty-seven.  Then he operated a farm in Nebraska for five years and beginning in 1885, he was engaged in railroad work for one year.  In 1886 he came to Washington and took up one hundred and twenty acres as a homestead, and later bought one hundred and sixty acres, which he has since farmed.  He was married in Nebraska in March, (20 May), 1879, to Emma Schner (Schriber), who was born in Germany (Austria) in 1855.  She is now deceased.  The children which survive her are: Anna, born August 15, 1881 (1880); Hubert, born Nov 13 (4) 1883; Lizzie, born Apr 15 (3) 1885 (1886); Katie, born Jun 11 (6 Nov) 1892; George, born March 8 (3) 1898, all of whom are living at home.”
    “Mr. Jonas is a member of the Catholic church.  He takes an active interest in political affairs, affiliating with the Democratic Party.  His holdings consist of two hundred and eighty acres of land, which he farms admirably, forty-five head of cattle and five head of horses.  He devotes about twenty acres to clover, the rest of his cultivated land to grain.”  The above article was published in 1904.
    “On 22 Jul 1905 William sold some of his land to all his children for a dollar.  On 29 Jul 1905 he sold what was probably the rest of his land to a local company.  About three months later William died, 11 Oct 1905.  He is buried in the Holy Cross Cemetery, Ellensburg, in an unmarked grave near his wife who has a beautiful marker. 
    “It is not the intention of the author to give a life history of William and Emma’s nine children. Some information has been collected and will be given as a partial history.  Also, five of their children’s pictures are included in this history book.
    “After William died the children stayed on the family farm.  Many land records told how some land was sold and other parts of the land had an option to sell by a certain date.  By 19 Feb 1912 all the land was finally sold. 
    “Emma, who changed her name to Erma, William (Bill) Jr., Kate and Anna never had any children, although they had all been married at one time.  Elizabeth (Lizzie) had two girls, Clydeen and Francis.  Clydeen was killed in a car wreck and the family lost track of Francis.  Hubert had two children.  A boy who died in World War II, and a girl named Mabel.  Hubert and Elizabeth both had a daughter who made them grandparents.  Hubert’s and Elizabeth’s family lines continue today, but there are no Jonas last names passed on anymore from William and Emma’s side of the family. 
    “Emma or Erma died in her sleep on the Oregon Coast.  She and her husband retired there operating a motel and he did plumbing on the side.  Katherine (Katie) died in the fire.  The newspaper article is quoted here.  “Trapped by flames which swept swiftly through her small apartment at 311 Deermount, Mrs. Kate (Jonas) Helgeson and Gustav Remset, 63, fisherman, were burned to death early this morning as rescuers, beaten back by smoke and fire, attempted in vain to save them.”
    “Firemen, who said the cause of the fire has not been officially determined, reported the telephone alarm was turned in at 1:14 a.m..” 
    “Coast Guardsmen, William Kendred, machinist’s mate first class, driving by on their way to the bases when they noticed the fire.  Stopped they spoke to three women standing on the sidewalk and found no alarm had been turned in.  The Coast Guardmen broke in a window and discovered the man’s body, but efforts to pull him out were thwarted by flames and smoke.”
    “Mrs. Helgeson, wife of William Helgeson, fisherman now on the fishing grounds on the vessel Attu, occupied the upper apartment of the house.  Louis Jacobsen lives in the lower one.  Jacobsen told police he came home about 11 last night and everything was dark upstairs.”
    “The two-story frame house was shambles, firemen said, although the lower floor was still intact.  Damage is estimated at $3,500.00.  Coroner P. J. Gilmore ordered an autopsy performed this afternoon by Dr. Dwight Cramer to determine the cause of death of the woman and man.  Mr. Remset, a member of the Deep Sea Fishermen’s union, registered in Seattle, was a halibut fisherman.”
    “Mrs. Helgeson, at one time a resident of Petersburg, had lived here for many years, and at one time operated what is now the Up and Up cafe.”
    “Kates death record has the following information.  She was 5’6” tall 225 lbs, and had a ruddy complexion with dark hair.  Cousin Verla Lythgoe, who did the LDS Temple work for Katie, said that she couldn’t stop crying during the time she was in the temple.  She knew that Katie was overjoyed that her temple work was being done for her. 
    “A short note should be made for Frank or Francis Jonas, who was a brother to William and Joseph Jonas.  We do not have very much information about him..  Neither Joseph’s or William’s children know much about him or his possible children.  I was told that he was the “black sheep” of the family and moved away from his brothers and their families.  I discovered that he married a Louise Andrews and in 1887 baptized a son in Ellensburg.  He wrote to his brother, Joseph, before Joseph died in 1917, so he probably lived longer than any of his brothers.  Merlin Jonas Andersen met a son of Frank’s in Idaho in 1937, but he wouldn’t have anything to do with his Utah cousins.  One day we will be able to add Frank’s family to this history.

Preface to Jonas History

Many years ago, I obtained a copy of Carvel Lee Jonas’ book that he wrote on our particular Jonas family.  I cannot seem to find my copy of the book now, but about 10 years ago I typed up most of it.  I am going to make it available with full credit to him.  Hopefully we can build off his research.  I removed Carvel’s home address and phone number off this preface.  If you wish to contact him, please contact me.  Further, I hope you will take the spirit of his preface to heart.  If you have stories to add, documents to share, or corrections, please make them know.  The sooner the better as time is our enemy when it comes to history.
“After more than four years of research and compiling I am thrilled to offer this Jonas family history book to family members.  The more family members distribute this history book to other members, the more likely the history will survive into the future.  This is your book!  Use it to create greater family unity.  When thoughtfully read the reader will discover a wonderful spirit which is associated with this history.  To get that feeling it may need to be read more than once. 
“This history book was no easy task!  Information was collected from all over Utah, and also from Washington, Nebraska, Michigan, and Germany.  We are blessed as a family to have the Jonas family pedigree from Germany, which was finally discovered in 1985.  A feeling came to me that the records were in existence, and it was possible to trace the family surname back to Europe.  In the process of looking for clues to extend that pedigree, I discovered that I had collected a considerable amount of information.  Land records, church records, county records, census records, etc.  The idea came to me that since I had so much information I might as well collect all that I could and make a history book.  I collected more information and talked to older members of the family so that I could get to know the personal stories about different members of the family.  I’d write down everything that I was told.  When I finally had enough information I put it all into one story.  Then I would get more information and rewrite the story again.  Finally I added my research and some logical conclusions which would feel correct to the stories and rewrite them again.  A special thank you to Verla Jonas Andersen Lythgoe for her willingness to answer my questions and tell me stories about Joseph and Annette Josephine Nelson Jonas.  She is the main reason we have a story for them.  When she was younger she would get my grandfather, William Nelson Jonas, and her mother, Rosa Nelson Jonas, together in the same room and quiz them about Joseph and Annie Jonas.  Because she asked questions and because of her good memory we now have a wonderful story about Joseph and Annie Jonas.  I remember taking all the letters that cousin Verla had sent to me, and putting all the information into a short story.  Then I went to cousin Verla with the story and asked her what her opinion was.  She corrected a part and eventually added more to the story.  I added my personal impressions and finally typed the last revision.  That is how the story of Joseph and Annie Jonas came into existence.
“The following persons gave information to me so I could write the individual life stories found in this book.
“Verla Jonas Anderson Lythgoe; Merlin Jonas Andersen; Lillian Jonas Talbot; Joseph H. Jonas; Spencer Jonas;  Carvel Thompson Jonas; Vaughn Thompson Jonas; Annette Nelson Brown; Mabel Jonas Parvi; Mr. And Mrs. Otto Hansen; Armina Jonas Farnes; Calvin Andersen Jonas.  Also, the autobiography of August Nelson and the biography of Christian Andersen were used and quoted when they applied to our direct family line.  It should be noted that the life stories were written by a person who had never met anyone he wrote about.  I never even met my grandfather, William Nelson Jonas, except as a small child.  I relied on the documents which I found and the memories of the above mentioned family members.  If there is a comment about something you read it is up to you to take the responsibility and let me know about it.  This is not intended to be the last edition of this history.  It is hoped that when more information comes from you, the family member, that there will be a future edition. 
“This history was reproduced in an inexpensive way to assure that a copy may be given to every member of the family regardless of their financial situation.  Perhaps a future edition will be professionally bound.  Also, this book is designed so that you may add your personal history to this book.  An attempt was not made, and will not be made by me, to write stories for those who are still living.  Their stories would be better stories if you wrote them yourselves.  I’ve left the responsibility for your own personal histories to you. 
Sincerely,
Carvel Lee Jonas
West Jordan, Utah
84084
26 October 1987

The Story of My Life by Fred Nuffer

Georg Friedrich Nuffer in early 1950s

Another entry from “We of Johann Christoph Nuffer, also known as: Neuffer, Nufer, Neufer,” The book was published in April 1990 by Dabco Printing and Binding Co in Roy, Utah. I will quote from the book itself.

“Being in my 80th year and inclined to reflection I have a desire to put in writing some of the events of my life.  My memory is very clear, even back to the earliest years, and consequently few happenings are left out.  For this reason I am able to go into detail beyond which might be expected.

“I was born January 20, 1864, in the little city of [Neuffen], County of Nurtingen, State of Wuerttemberg, Germany.  My mother died when I was about 2.  I have one brother, John, a year older than myself, still living (1943).  Father married against so we were raised by a stepmother.  She was a very sincere and Christian woman and a good mother.  In 1870, when I was 6, I started in school and graduated from 8th grade in 1878.  When I was 14, my father bound me over to learn the trade of glazier and carpenter to a man by the name of Christian Selter in Stuttgart, the capital of Wuerttemberg.  I didn’t learn much the first two years as I had to do all of the errands throughout the city until a younger boy took my place so I could stay in the shop.

“In 1880, my parents were converted by the Mormon missionaries and wanted to emigrate to Utah.  Stuttgart was about 20 miles from Neuffen.  I received a letter from Father asking if I wanted to go with them.  I did, but my master would not release me.  The folks had to come through Stuttgart on their way, so I started to smuggle my things away and intended to join them.  My master found my trunk empty and suspected my intentions so he offered to let me go for 200 Marks.  I told Father and and he sent the money.  I doubt if my master could have held me by force as I was under age.  Three other families emigrated at the same time from the same town.

“From Stuttgart we went to Mannheim, down the Rhine River, to Rotterdam, then cross the North Sea to Grimsley, England.  From there we went to New York and then to Logan, Utah.  Father bought a house and lot in Providence, a suburb of Logan.

Young Fred Nuffer

“The first summer I went to work for a man named Oslob painting houses for 25¢ a day and board.  All he did was take the jobs and mix the paint.  In the fall, he sent me home and the next spring he offered me 40¢ if I would come back.  I told him I had something better.

“There was a man by the name of Thomas Ricks in Logan who had a contract to lay the rails from Dillon, Montana, to Butte City on the Utah and Northern narrow gauge line.  I asked for a job, although I was only a kid.  But he took me with him and gave me a job dropping spikes along the rails.  I got 75¢ per day and board.  I learned the English language very fast that summer as I got away from the German people.

“Dillon, at that time, was the terminus of the U & N.  It was a very small village.  By fall we got to Silver Bow, 7 miles from Butte.  I grew very fast that summer and was promoted to bolting the rails together on one side, and my wages raised  to $1.05 per day.  It was late fall and winter had started, but we had to get to Butte with the track.  The last 4 miles laid we had to shovel a foot of snow off the grade.  We got the Butte on Christmas Day, and it was the first railroad to that city.

“Mr. Ricks also had a grading job on a railroad along the Jefferson River.  He sent a crew of 6 men over there with a team.  I asked him to let me go along but he said I was too young.  It was about 75 miles south of Butte over a range of mountains.  When the wagons were loaded and they were ready to start, I crawled under the tarp and went with them.  When we got out about 8 miles, I showed myself but they couldn’t do anything about it.  We had a large horse tied to the hind end of the wagon.  He broke loose and ran back toward the camp at Butte.  I, being a boy, was sent back to catch him.  They thought that would be a good way to get me back to camp.

“In fact, I was the cause of the horse breaking loose.  I chased the horse all the way back to camp, caught him, put a bridle on him without anyone noticing me, and started after the wagon again.  I had never ridden a horse.  He was quite frisky and I fell off several times and had to find a high place to get back on.  I didn’t catch the wagon, but got off on the wrong road and landed in a wood camp.  They told me the road was about 10 miles east.  I started out over rough ground and got on the right road.  At that point the road started through a canyon.  There was much snow and ice on the road as it was between Christmas and New Year’s.  It was getting late and was very cold.  I had to keep going to keep from freezing to death.

“About 12 miles further, that night, I came to the halfway house and found the wagon and men.  They had just gotten there ahead of me and were in the house talking.  They also had had a hard time pushing the wagon up the hills through the snow.  I gave them a good cussing for not waiting for me.  I guess it sounded funny in my broken English.  They said they thought the boss would keep me at Butte.  They couldn’t understand how I ever got through, it being so cold.

“The next day we came to our camp on the Jefferson River.  My job was to drive two single dump carts out of a deep cut.  I took one out and dumped it while 4 men loaded another with shovels.  The men were kind to me and corrected my speech whenever I didn’t pronounce words right.  We worked there until spring when the projected suddenly was stopped from headquarters.  The road was completed some years later.  We went back to Dillon by team from there.  With the advent of the railroad, Dillon had grown fast and had become a division.  I took the train back to Providence, Utah.

“As soon as I got home, I went to work for the Jessop brothers, Tom and Tet.  They were railroad grading contractors.  Their campe was located where Lava Hot Springs is built now, in Idaho.  I became a night herder.  My job was to take the horses and mules out on the range in the evening and come back with them at 6 a.m. in time for the teams to start the day’s work.  I got $1.75 per day and rode my own horse.  The next two years I spent most of my time in the saddle.

“I began to master the English language.  I seldom heard German spoken during this time.  This was the spring of 1882.  In this campe, I had a pal of my age by the name of Mark Golightly.  He was a nephew of Joe Golightly of Preston and a near relative of Mr. Jessop, my boss.  He was a privileged character in camp and didn’t have to do anything if he didn’t want to.  He claimed to be a fast foot racer and kept bantering me for a race.  I finally told him I’d run if he accepted my distance.  He said he would run any distance.  I named the distance between our two camps, about 2 miles apart.  I put up my saddle and $15.  He put up a new $40 shotgun.  There was a great commotion in camp when the men heard of it.  They wanted to go right after dinner so they could all see us start.  Some called me a darn fool and said Mark was a professional foot racer.  But after we got started they all bet something on one or the other.  A man went along on horseback.  I had my mind made up to win.  I made it in 14 minutes, Mark in 25 minutes.  Mr. Jessop said I shouldn’t take the gun from the boy.  I said all right, I didn’t want it, but Mark made me take it saying that I had won it fair.

“Our next move was to McCammon on the U & N coming up from the south.  The road we were working was the Oregon Short Line, starting from Granger, Wyoming, and running west through Idaho to Oregon.  McCammon was the western-most point in the construction.  We pitched our camp where the depot now stands.  I got acquainted with the late H.O. Harkness who owned all the land around McCammon and a hotel and saloon.  He had the land fenced for about 3 miles square.  He had put a gate on the further side and wanted me to drive the herd outside every night, but by the time the herd got feeding close to the fence it was time to lead them back to camp since I had to be back so early.  The land was all sagebrush and greasewood and he did no farming at all.  Harkness tried to raise the devil with my boss, insisting on me going outside, but I never did.  Thirty years after this happened, I met Harkness at McCammon.  He was sitting on the porch of his hotel in a rocking chair.  He had aged and was fat.  He didn’t know me but when I told him I was Jessop’s night herder he shook hands and was very friendly.  I asked him if he remembered when I refused to take the herd outside of his land.  He said, “Well, I ‘ll tell you, the land wasn’t mine.”  He called his man, told him to hitch up the cart and took me all over his land, showed me his crops.  It was a different place from 30 years earlier.  He treated me like a lost friend.  Invited me to dinner.  Then a year after that he died.

“I might say the way Harkness got his start was by marrying the widow of a man that owned the toll bridge across the Portneuf River at McCammon.  Before U & N was built there was much freighting by team from Corrine, Utah, the closest railroad point to Butte.  They all had to cross the toll bridge.  It was at McCammon where the Oregon Short Line met the U & N.  The railroads intended to make McCammon a division and build their shops there, as plenty of water and suitable land was about.  But Harkness owned all the desirable land.  He got too greedy and wanted to hold up the price.  The railroads refused and went through the canyon on the same grade with U & N to where Pocatello now stands and made their division point and built their shops (in 1887 – after a year in Eagle Rock).  This land was on the reservation and they got it cheap from the Indians.  McCammon is still a very small settlement and Pocatello is the second city in Idaho, thanks to Mr. Harkness.

“Our next move was to the desert between American Falls and Shoshone, about 75 miles without water.  It took many 4-horse teams to haul water for the camps.  There were dozens of camps in that lawless country.  Many horse thieves and all kinds of bad men.  Whenever one was caught in the act they would raise the wagon tongue, prop it up with a doubletree and hang them on it, dig a hole under their feet and bury them and nothing was said about it.  There were many occasions of that kind, for a man without a horse rarely lived long and for one man to steal another’s was just the same as taking his life and the penalty was also life.  The nearest authority was Boise City and they didn’t care anything about it.  The most general conversation in the camps was about horses and mules, pulling matches, foot races, riding wild horses, penny ante, and stud poker.

“When late fall came my job was ended.  About December 1st, I rode my horse home.  While riding over the desert, I had to buy water for my horse and dog at 25¢ per bucket.  Some distance from American Falls I met some tracklayers who were constantly following the grade builders.  I met several spike drivers whom I dropped spikes for the previous year in Montana.  At Pocatello I went to the section house and got a square meal.  It was the only building in the vicinity.  Not being able to get any feed for my horse, I went over to the river and turned him out and then slept out as usual.  The horse would not leave me and the dog to go very far.

“I stayed in Providence until about March 1.  This was the first time I took any notice of the dear girl who became my wife.  I was beginning to get of shaving age.

“About that time Jessop brought some more grading outfits from George Maler of Providence who was also a railroad contractor.  We loaded the outfit on flatcars at Logan and shipped them to Shoshone.  We rode in covered wagons on the flatcars.  At Battle Creek, near Preston, we stopped several hours, it being a terminal and a very tough place.  Several of the boys got drunk, especially one by the name of George Hovey.  He was continually climbing from one car to another until we missed him.  When we got to McCammon we got a message that the section hands had picked up the remains of a man on the tracks.  It turned out to be George Hovey.  Jessop went back and sent what was left of George to his mother who was a widow.  George had been working with us the previous year and was a very good boy.

“We could go to Shoshone on the train.  The tracks had been laid during the winter.  During the time that American Falls was the terminus there was a tent city across the Snake River with the usual quantity of bad men.  Several men who were known to have money disappeared.  The gamblers were under suspicion of having done the job.  They were ordered out of town and told that it would be too bad if they came back.  While they were gone the lawful citizens organized a vigilante committee.  After a few weeks, the gamblers, Tex and Johnson, came back and were seen going into a bakery.  They were surrounded in a gun battle.  Tex got his arm shot off.  Johnson wasn’t hurt.  A rope was placed around their necks and they were led out on the railroad directly over the falls.  They tied the ropes to the bridge and told them to jump.  Tex jumped and Johnson had to be pushed off.

“In connection with this incident, I happened to be placer mining in 1919 on the Snake River about 5 miles below American Falls.  One day I was walking to town and when I got close to the bridge I saw a bunch of men close by.  I went up to them and asked what the excitement was.  They had been digging post holes for an electric line to a brick yard.  They said they had dug up two men with their boots on.  I told them they were Tex and Johnson.  They had been buried there in 1883.  They asked me how I knew.  I told them I was there at the time.  They said, “You must be right because old Doc Brown, an old settler, told us the same thing.”  They had taken the bodies to town and were told to bring them back and bury them in the same place.  They were in the act of covering them up when I came upon them.  The old grave was on the edge of the rim rock with good drainage and they were in recognizable condition.

“The tent city of American Falls was now moved to Shoshone on flatcars.  While Shoshone was the terminus I believe it was the toughest and most lawless city that ever existed in the west.  There was no authority of any kind.  men gathered there from all the camps, at times about 2,000.  There were stores, gambling houses and dance halls.  Men got killed nearly every day.

“We were camped about half a mile from town on the banks of the Little Wood River.  I had a large, black, curly-haired dog, my constant companion and a coyote killer.  I rode into town one day when a large dog jumped onto mine.  My dog was getting the best of the other when a man ran out of a shack with an axe to kill my dog.  Just as the axe was being lifted I pulled my .44 and just in time.  I told the man to drop the axe or I would fill him full of holes.  He dropped it and ran.  I came within a few seconds of killing a man at that time and I believe I surely would if he had touched my dog.  And there would not have been anything done about it.  I carried a .44 Colt night and day by request of my boss as there were many horses being stolen nearby, but against me and my dog they had no chance.

“By the end of May, we got as far as Glenns Ferry, Idaho.  The first part of June we moved to Burnt Canyon above Huntington, Oregon.  During that trip I had a difficult time as I had to keep the herd out at night and then sleep in the wagon traveling over rough roads during the day.  The herd fed wherever night overtook us.  Sometimes there was very little feed.  One night we were camped where the Weiser grist mill now stands.  I took the herd out on what is now the Weiser Flats.  It was all sagebrush.  Now it is one of the best farm locations in the west.  There were a few log cabins where the Weiser Court House now stands and nothing more.

“Huntington had one store and one saloon.  It was tame to what we had seen.  We got too far ahead of the track gang which caused some delay.  At our camp in Burnt Canyon we had a China cook and a sort of person to cause trouble, it soon became evident.  Jessop’s wife and his grown daughter were the cook’s helpers.  The cook had a sore hand and wanted to lay off.  He said he had a friend in Boise that would be glad to come and take his place.  The boss told him to send for him.  In due time he arrived, about 7 o’clock one day.  The woman was in her tent at that time.  This new Chinaman went into the tent to talk to her.  She was just leaving to go to the cook tent.  She supposed he was following her out, but he didn’t.  Shortly after she went back to the tent to see where he was and caught him in the act of attempting to rape her 7-year-old girl.  She ran toward the dining tent and met me coming out.  She said, “Catch that Chinaman – he ought to be hung.”  I asked what he had done.  She wouldn’t tell me.  Just at that time her husband, Jessop, came riding in from the works.  She ran to him, told him something, then they both hurried over to me and said we got to hang that Chinaman.  He told me what he had done.  The Chinaman’s blankets that had been by the cook shack were gone and so was the Chinaman.  By that time the men had all come in from work for dinner.  No hell was popping.  The boss sent me up the road and he went down.

“There was a China camp up the road one half mile.  These men were working on a rock cut.  All the Chinaman were just coming out of the dining tent.  I ran up to the boss, an Irishman, and asked if he had seen a stray Chinaman.  He said no.  I decided he had not come this way as there were no tracks in the road either.  I arrived back at camp just as the boss did.  He said no one had been down the road so the Chinaman must be in the brush around camp.  All the men were called to hunt.  There were many acres of brush all around the camp, mostly hawthorn.  It was almost impossible to get through them.  Before long we found his blankets in the brush, it being too thick to get them any farther.  Then the hunt was on.  The only way to get him out was to burn him out and that is what was done.  There was much dry brush and it was in the dry season.  I got out on high ground on my horse where I could look over the brush and could see them waving as the Chinaman crawled through.  I directed the men to the spot by yelling the direction to go.  The Chinaman soon came out of the brush and jumped in the creek.  A bunch of men were there waiting for him and took him in charge.  From that point I took no active part.

“They abused him terribly.  One man took his queue over his back and dragged him.  The boss came running on his horse and said they had found a place to hang him.  Previously I had cut a trail through the brush to drive the herd night and morning to the other side of the creek into the hills.  There was a large hawthorn bowed over the trail and the boss had seen that so that is where they hung him.  They dug a hole under his feet and buried him in the center of the trail.  I drove the heard over his grave night and morning.

“There was a Chinaman who was the head of all the China camps in the vicinity.  He happened to be in the camp that I searched.  The fire could be seen for miles and caused some excitement.  This head Chinaman came to our camp to see what was going on.  He saw the Chinaman hanging on the hawthorn.  He had three of what he called our ring leaders arrested.  They were taken to Baker City, Oregon, for trial.  They all denied having a hand in the affair, claiming they were working on the grade at the time.  The timebooks showed full time for all, although no one had worked that afternoon.  So the case was dismissed.  During the hanging, an Irishman in our camp had pulled for the Chinaman saying that we had punished him enough without hanging him, too.  If the Irishman had not got out of their way they would have hung him, too.  That shows how crazy a mob can be.  It is not healthy to interfere.

“The country at that time was waving with bunch grass two feet high, with plenty of elk and deer and other wild animals.  Night herding was an easy job but there were rattlesnakes everywhere.  I could sleep in the grass from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m., then round up the herd and get to camp by 5:30; that is if I didn’t mind to sleep with the rattlers.  But I actually did.  I found it was too hot to sleep in the tent in the daytime, so I cleaned a place in the brush and made my bed on the ground and for a week every time the dinner bell rang, I stirred, a big rattler crawled from under the blankets and got away in the brush.  When I think of it I must have been a foolhardy kid as I didn’t pay any attention to the snake.  When I told the boys about this they called me a damn fool.  One day a friend stood by my bed when the dinner bell rang and, with a forked stick, he caught the snake.  He took it to the chopping block and cut off its head.  It still kept rattling.  I cut off about two foot more and it still rattled.  I put it in m pocket with the rattles sticking out, then walked into the kitchen.  The woman folks though I had a real one and all scattered.

“One night I was sleeping in the grass when my dog by my side growled.  As I raised up, the dog grabbed a rattler from the front of my face.  He caught it too far back from the head which permitted the snake to bite the dog several times on the side of the mouth.  It was moonlight and I could see it very plain.  He dropped the snake and walked around shaking his head which had already started to swell.  I took him to camp and tied him to a wagon wheel and went back to the herd.  In the morning, his head looked like a calf’s head.  He laid in the creek all day but went out with me every night.  I chopped up some meat and stuffed it down his through to keep him from starving.  The boys wanted me to kill him.  They said he might get mad, and if I did not kill him they would.  I told them the first one that hurt the dog would be a dead man.  They took my word for it and left him alone.  On the 12th day I heard the first faint bark.  The dog was getting well.

“Sometime in November, I bought two fine large horses and told my boss I was going to ride them home.  He said I’d never get there as it was over 400 miles of unsettled country.  I told him I would get there if I started, and start I did.  I went straight south of Snowville, just over the Idaho line into Utah.  I then back-tracked some and went east to Malad.  From there I went across the mountains to Franklin, Idaho, then south to Providence, Utah, the trip taking 12 days.

“Many things happened on this trip.  I camped wherever night overtook me and bought something to eat whenever I could.  Sometimes I had nothing but jackrabbit fried on the sagebrush.  It was harder on the dog than on me or the horse.  It was warm and dusty for that time of year.  Near Glenns Ferry, Idaho, I came to a house there.  He let me put my horse in the stable and I slept in the stake yard.  During the night the dog growled and as I peeped out from the blankets I saw the man pulling hay out of the stack.  I went to sleep thinking nothing of it.  Next morning my saddle was missing.  I accused the man of stealing it.  He denied it.  He said he hadn’t been out of the house all night.  I knew he was guilty and said so.  I marched him all through the house ahead of my gun, but found nothing.  I told him I’d kill him if I didn’t get the saddle.  It had cost me $50 and I had a long ways to go.  I stayed there a few hours and then he sent his boy off on a horse.  I supposed he went to get help as there were several cowboy camps throughout the country.  I figured that I had better be going so I made some rope stirrups for my pack-saddle, which was an old riding saddle, and put the bedding on the other horse without any saddle.  I started off.  I crossed at Glenns Ferry at about 4 o’clock that evening and went on into the desert.  Next day was a warm one and the dog gave out.  He traveled with his head close to the ground in the dust.  I couldn’t do anything about it.  The horses were getting dry and dying for water.  It wasn’t long until the road went downhill and I came to Snake River again.  I had to lead the horses to water three times before I dared to let them have all they wanted.  After awhile I saw the dog crawling down the hill.  He made it to the river.

“There was a stage station there and I got a square meal.  This place is now called Thousand Springs, and the country is well settled.

“I went through Franklin because I had a letter from my brother, John, telling me that the folks had moved from Providence to northeast of Franklin.  I went up Cub River a ways as that was northeast but found nobody that ever heard of the folks, so I turned south to Providence.  I had my reason to go to Providence.  My charming girl was there.

“John found out I was in Providence and came to get me.  They were located on Worm Creek on a homestead.  I stayed with the folks until spring, 1884, when I went to work on a gravel train and sometimes on a section between Montpelier and Granger.  That fall I took a herd of sheep for George Horn to the winter range on the promontory north of Salt Lake.  The spring of 1885 I met my old chum, Abe Kneiting, in Logan, and we decided to go to Butte.  We worked in a sawmill for awhile, about 8 miles west of Butte.  From there we went to Anaconda to drive a team in a wood camp for W. A. McCune.  I worked a few months in the Anaconda smelter but didn’t like it there.  I got to know Marcus Daly who was head of the smelter.  The wages at the smelter were from $3 to $6 per shift, according to the job.  That fall Daly cut the wages to 50¢ to $1 for the same work.  The way he did it was to shut the smelter down entirely for repairs, as he claimed, and started up one furnace at a time.  In a month, the smelter was in full force again with the wages cut and Daly got a $50,000 Christmas present.  The company wanted him to do the same thing in the mines at Butte.  He said it could not be done.  The union was too strong and he valued his life.

“The mines and the smelter were owned by the same company.  They also had a railroad that ran between the two places.  Mr. W. O. Clark was the head man for the mines.  The general talk by the men around Butte and Anaconda was about Marcus Daly, W. O. Clark and John L. Sullivan.  There was a mill and concentrator west of Butte called the Bluebird Mill, owned by the company.  This New York firm sent a man out to cut the wages in the mill.  The mill and smelter men had no union at that time.  Once, when the New Yorker was strutting along this street at the corner of Main and Clark, a bunch of men were standing there and they were whispering.  All at once they closed in on the New Yorker from all sides.  A few policemen came running.  The mob took hold of the police and told them to walk on down the street and that it was not healthy for them to stop or look back.  They went.  They dropped a rope over the New Yorker and threw the other end over a telegraph pole.  He begged so hard for his life that they told him if he would go back to New York and promise never to come back to Montana they’d let him go.  He promised.  About 100 men escorted him to the depot and put him on the first train.  They say he has never been seen in Montana since.  I worked for A. W. McCune until the spring of 1887 in the mines at Lion City.  The camp was called Hecly and the mine called Cleopatrie.  It was about 15 miles from Melrose, in the mountains.

Anna Rinderknecht Nuffer, 1933 in Mt Hebron

“In the spring of 1888, I took a layoff for two weeks.  My boss said if I was back in two weeks my job would be ready.  I went to Providence and met my charming sweetheart, Anna Rinderknecht.  I had courted her for the last 4 years.  I told her I came to get married.  She said all right.  We called the local Justice of the Peace, Alma Mathius, to the house.  He married us with her mother and two neighbors for witnesses.  Licenses weren’t necessary at that time.  She was raised in the Mormon Church.  I was baptized into the church when I was 16.  We were married under the condition that she would go with me to the mining camp where my job was waiting.  She said she would go anywhere I wanted her to go and be glad of it.  We were married on April 4, 1888.  We lived happily together for 55 years and 6 days.  She passed away April 10, 1943, at 15716 Saticoy Street, Van Nuys, California.

“Now I am due to tell the story of my married life which was altogether different conditions from my single life.

“We stayed in the mining camp until November, 1888, and went back to Providence.  That winter I went to Idaho and homesteaded 160 acres adjoining my father’s place.  It was between Cub River and Worm Creek.  I got out logs and built a one-room house.  I got a team and farming implements, moved into the log house and started farming in the spring of 1889.  We had a hard going for awhile.  The Cub River-Preston Canal circled our place.  I got a job ditch riding the canal which was great help.

“There was a large cliff of grey sandstone on my father’s place.  I started a rock quarry and got out stone in dimension sizes.  It was used for trimming on the better buildings going up throughout the neighboring towns.  It was much in demand.  The Academy at Preston was started about that time, with my brother, John, as supervisor of construction.  I got a contract to supply stone for this building which called for 2,000 cubic feet at 25¢ per foot at the quarry.  The stone was used for corners, sills and watertable.  The next year I furnished stone for nearly every town in Cache Valley.  That was before the cement age.

“In 1891-92, the Agricultural College at Logan was expanding.  I made contract with Mr. Venables of Ogden to deliver about 3,000 cubic feet of cut stone.  He had tried to get some stone somewhere south of the valley but found it unsuitable.  As I had furnished stone for several buildings in Logan he came to me.  I lived near the quarry at that time.  he inspected and approved the stone.  The quarry was about 10 miles up Cub River Canyon from Franklin, on the left side slope going up the river, on a small tributary of Cub River called Sheep Creek.

“All work was done by hand.  The main ledge was about 20 feet above the ground about 20 feet wide and 400 to 500 feet long.  We used 12 foot church drills and blasted large rocks loose from the main ledge.  We had to be careful how much powder we used so as not to shatter or cause seams in the stone.  We usually had to put  second charge in the opening made by the first charge to dislodge the block from the main ledge.  The block so dislodged was from 6 to 7 feet thick and about 20 feet long.  From then on all tools used were hammers, axes, wedges, and squares.  Grooves were cut with axes wherever we desired to split the block, then wedges were set in the grooves about ten inches apart and driven in with hammers.  Then we dressed them down to the right measurements, allowing one half inch for the stonecutters to take out the tool marks we made.  Venables furnished bills for stone in dimension sizes as needed in the building.

“My brother, Charles August Nuffer, worked on the job the whole time it lasted.  I also had a man by the name of Ed Hollingsworth of Preston, also Mr. A Merrill and Mr. Abel Smart of Cub River, and Mr. Robert Weber of Providence.

“It took part of two years for the job.  The hauling was all done with wagons and horses; 30 to 35 cubic feet was a good load for two horses.  These men did the hauling, John McDonald of Smithfield, Jean Weber of Providence, and Jake Rinderknecht of Providence who hauled more than any other.  He used to leave home at 3 a.m., load up the same day and get back to Logan by 3 p.m. the next day.  It was very hard on the horses.  I also hauled a good many loads with my own team.  All loading was done by hand on skids.  It seems the miles were not so long when we traveled with horses as it does now when we travel in cars.

“I got 40¢ per cubic foot, of which 20¢ was paid for hauling.  We had a hard time handling the name stone to go on the front of the building.  When it was ordered it had 30 cubic feet in it and only one foot thick.  When the stonecutters got through with it they found it too big to be hoisted in place so they made it smaller until there wasn’t much left.

“The most difficulty I had was in not getting my pay from the Superintendent.  We overlooked a large 4-horse load at the final settlement.  A few minutes after I had signed a receipt for the final payment in full I discovered my mistake.  He refused to pay for it, although I produced the bill of lading signed by him.  He didn’t dispute the debt, but said he had a receipt paid in full.  He didn’t have anything and the government property couldn’t be attached, so I was the loser of about $15, which seemed a lot of money to me at that time.  (Mr. Nuffer wrote this part in 1938 – excerpted here – at the request of college officials; it was part of a historical cornerstone insertion to be opened at the centennial in 1988.)

“About 1895 the Mink Creek – Preston canal was being dug.  I got the job to do all the rock work for a stretch of about 10 miles.  Later on, the Utah Power and Light Company built a large canal on the opposite side of the river from the Preston canal.  I had several large jobs on that work.  I was watermaster for one term on both the Preston canals.  From 1896 to 1898 I was occupied mostly with farming, horse raising, and cow milking.  In 1898, I traded my homestead for a farm nearer Preston on the brow of the hill near Battle Creek.  I bought a house and lot in Preston and moved the family there.  I had a few hundred head of sheep and leased 2,000 more from Joe Jensen of Brigham City.  I had them two years when wool and lambs went so low I had to give them up at a loss.  One of my mistakes.

“About this time the cement industry came into being.  I went into the cement business and built the first cement sidewalks in Preston.  I also built culverts, bridges and all kinds of cement work for the city and county.  When cold weather came all cement work was stopped.  Being an old timer, and always on good terms with the village Board, they gave me the job of special police in the winter.  As I had a big family to support it was a great help.  The city of Preston at that time had about 3,000 population and at times an unruly element visited the city and its three saloons.  It kept the policeman very busy, especially at night.  I was on duty mostly at night.

“In 1905, I built the first two-story hollow cement block house in that part of the country which I used for myself.  We lived in the cement house for 4 years.  About that time I heard from my friend who was living in Mexico, near Tampico.  He was raising sugar cane and told me how we could all get rich quick raising it at $400 an acre.  I and a friend went down to look it over.  Mr. Tomlinson, the real estate man at the colony, offered me 87 acres of choice jungle land very cheap if I would move my family down.  There was a large American colony at San Diegeto.  I sold our home in Preston for $5,000 and moved the family down there.  Another mistake.

“I intended to stay 5 years and get the place all planted in cane and then lease it out and come back a rich man.  I bought a lot and built a house in San Diegeto.  The town was 10 miles from the plantation, which was on lower ground along the river.  A bunch of us Americans went down tot he plantation every Sunday evening by train to look after our Mexican workers.  We would come back Saturday evening.  I had from 5 to 15 Mexicans working the clear the ground and do some plowing.  We had to plant tomatoes or corn first to get the ground in good condition for cane.  The second year I had 5 acres in cane and 30 acres ready to plant the next year.  I would have made it in 5 years if it hadn’t been for the Mexican revolution.  We came to San Diegeto in April, 1909.  That same year Mexico had a presidential election.  Diaz was elected again which started the revolution to run him out, and trouble began all over the country.  By 1911 it got so bad we had to leave as it was not safe there any more.

“I gave an old American, name of Tigner, a contract for 5 years.  He was to have the place all planted in cane and return all the implements and animals in good condition.  He thought he could stay on.  He made very good progress for two years when Villa moved in with his band, arrested all the Americans and gave them their choice to stay in jail or leave the country.  Tigner went to Tampico and left on a refuge ship.  I got a letter from him from New Orleans asking me to release him from the contract.  We were in our home town, Preston, when I got the letter.  I couldn’t do anything but release him, so I lost all my investments and was a broke man with a large family.  By that time I was in the cement business again and made a living at it.

“About 1924, a few hundred of us Americans from San Diegeto put in a damage claim in Washington against the Mexican government.  My claim was for $30,000.  The Mexican government agreed to pay $10 million at the rate of $500,000 per year over a period of 10 years.  I was allowed $1,500 and that was cut 50 percent because there wasn’t enough to go around.  Our lawyer in Washington gets 20 percent and our secretary, Mr. Tomlinson, gets 5 percent, so there isn’t much left.  (*The script may have meant 20 years.)

“In 1920, we left Preston and went to Weiser, Idaho, on a farm.  We stayed there 4 years when I got interested in an irrigation project in Butte Valley, Siskiyou County, California.  We did quite well there for a few years until we got in several lawsuits over the water and lost some at every suit.  So we always ran out of water about June 1st each year.

“There was a large cattle ranch in the south end of the valley called the Bois ranch.  This had exclusive right to all the water in the creek called Butte Creek.  The irrigation district bought the ranch for $50,000 in order to get the full rights to all the water.  The district started to take some of the water further down the valley.  The cattlemen and settlers above the valley said if the district can take the water away from the ranch they could do the same.  So they started to put dams in the creek.  As I was the only one that could use dynamite they always sent me to blow out the dams, which I did.

“A rich cattleman defied the district and put in a dam that a few sticks of dynamite could not blow out, as it was built with logs and large rocks and was about 25 feet across.  Our president asked me how many sticks it would take to blow it out and I told him about 100.  He said he would get it, as the dame must come out.  I told him I would not take the responsibility as the man had too much money and could cause me trouble.  He said he would send an officer with me to take the responsibility.  To this I consented.  They sent the local constable with me.  I tired 100 sticks of dynamite in a bundle, put it under the dame on the upper side near the bottom.  It did a good job.  There was no more dam nor a place to build another one near.

“The owner of the ranch wanted $1,000 damage.  About that time we had another lawsuit over the water with the other fellows and this man wanted to bring his case in at the same time.  We all attended court at the county seat at Yreka.  Everybody knew who had blown up the dam.  Between the trials the lawyer asked the constable if he blew up the dam.  He said no, Mr. Nuffer did that.  The lawyer turned to me and said, “Did you blow up the dam?”  I said I did.  He asked who ordered it done and I said our district president, Mr. Snider.  The lawyer turned to Mr. Snider and asked, “Did you order Mr. Nuffer to blow out the dam?”  Snider said he did.

“That was the last we heard of the case.  But the cattleman put in another dam.  In the end, we had so many lawsuits and lost so much water every time that we could not farm successfully.  I went to milking cows and raising chickens, turnkeys and pigs, and did fairly well.

“In 1936, my son, Leon, living in Los Angeles, bought two and half acres in Van Nuys with a house and some chicken equipment.  He came to Mt. Hebron where I was located and asked me to sell out and take charge of his place.  I hesitated but my wife wanted to get away from Mt. Hebron.  I sold at a loss and moved to Van Nuys.  The place had been neglected but I worked hard and made it one of the best places in the valley.  It is now December 30, 1943, and my dear wife has passed away.  We had one daughter and many sons.

Emma Nuffer Nelson

“A short time before our first child was born we went to the Logan Temple where the ceremony was performed, our previous marriage being on a civil rite.  This was on January 3, 1890.  On May 4 our first child, Emma was born.  She married George Nelson and died in January 28, 1919, when the flue was raging.  She left two girls, Lucille, 3, and Virginia, 18 months.  We raised them until they were 4 and 5 when their father married again (Anna Rinderknecht, Emma’s cousin).  Our boys were Fred Jr., Leon, Bryant, Raymond, Lloyd, Glenn, Harold and George (who died in 1914 at the age of two).

 

Beulah Duncan and Damey Ross

Beulah and Damey Ross

I received this photo a few years ago.  It just has “Beulah” written on the back of it.  I asked the person who provided it to see if they could get a higher resolution scan of the photo.  I don’t have one yet, but I can always hope.

There is really only on Beulah Ross in the entire extended family I am aware.  That is Beulah Estell Ross.  She was born 26 March 1908 in Twin Branch, McDowell, West Virginia.  She was born to Robert Leonard Ross (1888-1944) and Minnie Belle Hambrick (1889-abt 1985).  There are many questions about her father Robert.  I have heard stories from West Virginia family that he was running from the law when he visited them in the 1930s.  Which might lead to some explanation on why he is hard to track and records seem to be scant.

We believe Robert and Minnie had 6 children, but only 3 of them have we really been able to find or track.  Beulah Estell Ross is one of those children.  She met and married William Jackson “Jack” Duncan on 20 September 1922 in Burley, Cassia, Idaho.  He was born 26 September 1901 in Clinton, Van Buren, Arkansas.  That would put her at 14 years of age when she married in Burley to Bill, who was 21.

I have written of her grandparents, James & Damey Ross, before.  They lived in and near Paul, Minidoka, Idaho until the late 1920s.  The 1930 census found them in Bend, Deschutes, Oregon.

Looking at the photo, I am guessing Beulah is about 12-14, which puts us in the early 1920s and in southern Idaho.

Beulah and Jack had 4 children that we know.  Jack died 11 July 1977 in Sunnyside, Yakima, Washington.  Beulah remarried to a Kenneth K Marshall.  She then passed away 5 March 2002 in Toppenish, Yakima, Washington.  Jack and Beulah are both buried in Zillah.

Read her obituary here.

I found this note from a 2007 post.  I recorded these notes from a conversation with granddaughter Carol Ann Stone.

“We visited for a few minutes; she told me what she knew of her grandmother, Beulah.  Their story goes something like this.  Robert was an alcoholic and his wife Minnie had some sort of Drug addiction.  All the children were farmed out to others.  Beulah was taken in by her grandparents, my great great grandparents James Thomas Meredith Ross and Damey Catherine Graham.  She was taken and raised near Rupert, Idaho.  But her strict Mormon grandparents was a bit much for her so she was anxious to get out.  That came when she met a Jack or Mack Duncan.  She was 14 and married him.  They moved to Zillah, Washington and lived out the remainder of their days.  He died in the late 70’s and she died in 2002 at about 96 years of age.  They had four children, two of which are deceased.”

The more I looked at the photo, it dawned on me that the lady was her grandmother, Damey Catherine Graham Ross.

Damey Catherine Graham Ross

Here is a photo of James Thomas and Damey Catherine Ross.

James & Damey Ross

Robert, Beulah’s father, is brother to my John “Jack” William Ross.

After I realized that this photograph was another of my Great Great Grandmother, I was pretty excited.  It makes me want to be more diligent in chasing down a better scan of the photo.

Here are a couple of other photos with Beulah and Jack in them.  I don’t know the other individuals.  Some day….

Jack and Beulah Duncan

 

Beulah and Jack Duncan with unknown

 

Beulah’s Son

 

Beulah’s Son Bob

 

Jack and family 1

 

Jack and family 2

 

Jack and Beulah Duncan Family

 

John “Jack” Ross and Beulah Duncan

Ole Loren Christiansen

Which Christiansen?

I have this photo sitting on my desk at work.  It is a little 2×3 inch picture inside a soldered silver metallic frame.  It belonged to my Great Grandmother, Lillian Coley Jonas (1898 – 1987).  It came from the collection of photos left to her by her mother, Martha Christiansen Coley (1879 – 1961).

My first impressions of the picture remind me of Lillian’s brother, Arthur Christiansen Coley (1921 – 2004).  But for his age, the clothing are the wrong time frame.  But because of the family resemblance I can see in Uncle Art, I know this man is related to me.

Since the picture belonged to Martha, I have often wondered if this is a picture of her father, Olle Christiansen (1853 – 1900).  But the hat, tie, shirt, and suspenders don’t match for a person who passed away in 1900.

Since he looks like Uncle Art, but the person in the photo has to be greying and older by the 1930’s, then I believe this is one of Marth’a brothers.  I know very little about the brothers.  Martha had three brothers: Henry Owen Christiansen (1887 – 1932), Roy Christin Christiansen (1892 – 1892), and Ole Loren Christiansen (1898 – 1977).  Since Roy died as a baby, I know it isn’t him.

That leaves me to Henry Owen and Ole Loren.  Henry Owen and Martha seem to have done very little to keep in contact.  Not a single letter, post card, or photograph that we can tell document anything in communication.  Plus he died in 1932, so the photo above had to predate that date.  I am not a great teller of fashion styles and changes, but I believe the above photo’s clothing would date during the 1930s into the 1940s.  As such, I believe this photo is of Ole Loren.

I have one photo of Ole Loren.  Don’t you think they are close enough in features that they could be the same.  However, I do not know if Henry Owen looked like him.

Sister, Ole Loren, Florence?

I don’t even know which sister of Loren’s is on the left.  From other photos and correspondence I very much believe this is Rhoda.  With the letters and cards between the two, it is very likely this photo was provided to Martha by her.  The photo only says “Sister, Loren, and wife” on the back.  Ole Loren, who I believe went by Loren, probably to differentiate him from his father, only had two wives that I am aware.  Sara Strong (1900 – ?) who he married in 1918 and Florence Knapp (1898 – ?) who he married in 1926.  I don’t know what happened to Sara, there appears to have been a divorce.  For the time of this photo, Florence is likely his wife.  I can tell the sister on the left is a sibling to Martha and Loren, I just don’t know which one.

Henry Owen Christiansen appears to have died in Tillamook County, Oregon.  On his service registration in 1918 he is living in Northport, Stevens, Washington with a wife of Anna Wilda Christiansen.  I believe she is Anna Wilda Hooser from Texas.  They appear to have had children named Mary, Madison, Gerald, Henry Jr, and John.  Quite a bit more research to properly piece the family together.

Ole Loren Christiansen appears to have died in Oakland, Alameda, California.  I believe two children were born to Sara, Ruth and Robert, and two to Florence, Lorraine, and Lucille.  Lorraine and Lucille may have been twins, both born the same year.

Without more photos to compare, I don’t believe I will pin point these individuals while in mortality.  But at least I have narrowed down the family relationships.  If anyone has more information on Ole Loren Christiansen or Henry Owen Christiansen, I am very much interested in any clues or leads you can provide.

At any rate, people often ask me about the little frame on my desk.  All I usually say is it is my Great Great Grandmother’s brother, I don’t know which one.  Most don’t say anything about that, but a number of commented on how intriguing the picture is.  I agree, some day I will learn more on Loren and Henry and hopefully can provide an update.

 

Edith Maude Gudmundson Andra

Edith Gudmunson

Edith Maude Gudmundson Andra, 91, passed away on Monday, 18 July 2016 at her home in Stockton, Missouri, from natural causes related to age.  She was born the first of two children on 21 September 1924 in Logan, Utah, to Melvin Peter and Maude Victoria Wollaston Gudmundson.  She married William Fredrick Andra Jr 13 June 1947 in the Logan Utah LDS Temple.  Together they had six children.  William passed away in 1992.  Edith married Leland Fred Williams 10 March 1999 in Arnica, Missouri.  He predeceased her in 2011.

Edith grew up in Logan at 253 East 3rd South.  She had one sister, Shirley, born in 1928, with who she grew up.

Shirley, Melvin, and Edith

Shirley, Melvin, and Edith

 

Shirley and Edith Gudmundson

Shirley and Edith Gudmundson

Her mother passed away in 1931 and the family had to work through those difficult years with just the three of them.  She attended Wilson School and Logan Junior and Senior Schools where she graduated. She played the violin.

Edith Maude Gudmunson 005

Logan HS Yearbook

Logan HS Yearbook

 

Logan HS Yearbook

Logan HS Yearbook

 

Edith Maude Gudmunson 012 Edith Maude Gudmunson 014 Edith Maude Gudmunson 008 Edith Maude Gudmunson 010

She enlisted in the Navy in Salt Lake City, Utah, 21 September 1944 and served until discharge in San Francisco, California, 1 May 1946.  She trained and served as a switchboard operator for the majority of the time of her service.

Edith Maude Gudmunson 015 Edith Maude Gudmunson 016

After her military service, she attended Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah.

Edith in the BYU yearbook

Edith in the BYU yearbook

Edith 002

During this time she met William Andra, who discharged from the Marines 20 June 1946.  I am not aware that he attended Brigham Young University, but I know he was living in Orem and it was likely there that William and Edith met culminating in their marriage in 1947.

Edith and William Andra Marriage Portrait

Edith and William Andra Marriage Portrait

Greg William was born in Preston, Idaho in 1948.  Chad Fredrick was born in Preston in 1949.

Edith

Bill and Edith andra with Greg and Chad

By 1950, the family was living in Boise for a short time.

Edith in 1951

Edith in 1951

The family then moved back to Logan where Kent Melvin was born in 1954.

Bill and Edith with Marc, chad, and Kent

Edith Maude Gudmunson

The family was living in Midvale by 1955 where Marc David was born.  Then to Salt Lake City in 1956.  Troy Norman was born in Providence in 1960.

Bill and Edith andra with Greg and Chad and Kent, marc

Bill & Edith in Richmond for an Andra Reunion

Bill & Edith in Richmond for an Andra Reunion

A few years later the family moved to Smithfield.  Todd Nathan was born in Smithfield in 1968.

Greg,Kent and Marc, Chad, Edith, Bill

Greg and Chad and Kent 001

It is in Smithfield that my mother came to know the family, since she was living in Richmond.  Kent and my Mom were close in age and played together.

Larry and Mom both told me stories about William and Edith being very particular about being healthy eaters.  Larry remembers Edith washing every leaf of a head of lettuce before it could be eaten.  William tried to convince Larry of the unhealthy nature of bacon and milk.  Nobody else seemed to care, but it would really get William and Edith upset when people would not come to their way of thinking.  William was also particular about when you ate, not mixing the various parts of your food with other parts.  Larry found much of this amusing.

The Andra family was a fairly tight knit family and held reunions together yearly.  Relationships started to strain in 1965 when William and Edith learned and accepted polygamy leading to their excommunication from the LDS church.  The Andra family relationships started to strain further after attempts to convert William’s parents and some of the siblings to polygamy.  Even while William’s parents were in a nursing home late in life, there were attempts to convert them to polygamy which led to final severing ties.

Bill and Edith with 5 boys

William Andra Jr FamilyBill Edith Children 1981

I don’t know when, but the family after converting to polygamy moved to Santa Clara.  Nobody in the immediate family knows when due to the severance.  After many years in Santa Clara, they then moved to Cedar County, Missouri.

Bill Edith 1981

Bill and Edith Family 1981

Bill and Edith in SLC (2)Todd, Troy, Marc, Kent, Chad, Greg 004

Todd, Edith, and Kent Andra

My first visit to Edith was in 2001.  I was moving to Branson, Missouri for work and before I left Uncle Ross Andra told me Edith lived in Missouri somewhere.  I do not have any memories with William and Edith and did not even know she was still alive.  Ross told me I should stop and visit.  I knew nothing of the divide that had come into the family.

When I stayed the night before entering Missouri in Florence, Kansas, I looked to see what I could find in the phone book.  With a last name like Andra, it wasn’t hard to find who I thought was the right name in Stockton, Missouri.  I called the number and it was Mary Andra, wife of Kent Andra who answered.  She told me I was welcome to stop by and since their shop was a bit off the beaten path, gave me directions.

I arrived later that day and found a long lost number of cousins I never knew existed.  I saw the shop, I met a number of Kent’s children, and then I was taken down to the home to meet more of the family.  When I was introduced to his wife, Tammy, I thought I had already met his wife, Mary, but I assumed I must have misunderstood.  I met more and more children.

Kent sent one of his daughters with me to help me find Edith’s home.  I sat with Edith meeting her for the first time in my memory and chatted for quite a while.  She showed me some family history, told me some sweet stories of my Grandmother Colleen, and various conversations.  Edith did not know Colleen had passed away.  She told me of her new marriage to Leland Williams.  We parted on great terms and went back to Kent’s home, enjoyed some carrot juice, and visited.

In a funny situation, I was enjoying my carrot juice trying to keep the children’s names straight when Mary came into the house.  I sat there talking with Kent, Tammy, and Mary having a good laugh.  I kept wondering how I misunderstood and was unclear on who was Kent’s wife, so I asked.  They stated that both were.  I sat there not comprehending.  I must have looked confused because they just looked at me.  It then dawned on me and I made some comment like, “Well, we are family right?”  I laughed, they laughed, and I think any tension or misunderstanding that may have been there melted away.  That was not something I was expecting that day!

We said our goodbyes knowing that we were still family.  I quite enjoyed my visit.

It was later that week I got a phone call from Edith asking me to not share names, circumstances, or anything else regarding the family because it had caused so much trouble with the rest of the family.  I told her that we were family and it did not bother me and I really did not think it bothered anyone else.

I visited again in 2002.  When Kent passed away in 2003, I thought they were very kind to let me know.

Amanda and I stopped in 2006 on our move from Utah to Virginia.  As we drove to the boonies where they lived, she joked with me that I was going to drop her off out in the middle of nowhere.  We again had a very pleasant visit with Mary, Tammy, and Edith.  Amanda was prepped with the information and quickly found out nobody had multiple heads or horns.  I think it was the boonies that gave her more concern than the polygamy.

I visited again in 2008 driving from Virginia through to Washington for work.  That time Edith had moved to a home nearer to her son Marc.  I stopped to visit Marc and Cheryl and met them for the first time.  Edith also came over to the house and we visited with her.  Here is a photo from that visit.

Paul Ross, Cheryl & Marc Andra, and Edith.

Paul Ross, Cheryl & Marc Andra, and Edith.

I tried to call Edith every other year or so.  Sometimes it was hard to track her down, but I typically found her and was able to call.  The last time I visited with her was when Donald was sick and dying with cancer in the spring of 2016.  I asked Donald if I could let some of the extended family know.  He said yes.  With that, I called Edith and visited with her about Sergene’s passing and Donald’s cancer.  She talked about how the family was distant and she appreciated the updates.  She also indicated that life continues to pass and we all end up dealing with death at some point.  She reminded me of her age and she did not know where she would be next week either.

Now she is gone.

While I know there was quite a bit of angst in the family over the beliefs and separation, but despite all that I am glad I did not know of the polygamy issues and got to know the family as just that, family.  Their position, beliefs, and practices at no point directly affected me in any way.  I am glad I know them!

Aunt Edith, until we meet again.